i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Sorry lilacs- I did miss that. I can see how easy it is to get caught up in the heat of this thing. My bad. I wne tback and you did say that you were joking. Apologies accepted I hope.
On the other part though, lilcas, I never said "we" as in "you" I said "I" as in me= what I would do with my set of eyes. Just the way I see it.
Edited by - trybalance on 14 October 2002 16:47:16
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Thank you guys! Some of youhave been very helpful for me to gain an understanding as to the whys. Validation. I can see that. Advocacy. I can see that as well. To be honest however I can see what others said to. A lot of words have been put in my mouth here. A lot of people tried to judge me here. For sure a lot of anger and attitude. Thank you all again for your time. I hope that the next time someone comes here and ask a question that they can be dealt with without all the defensive, judgemental name calling stuff going on. There may be someone that really needs your help and really is screwed up by this religion. If that person got some of what I got here who knows what they might do. It is too bad that some hate to be questioned and can not stand for someone else to have a different set of eyes. It is too bad that people put words and thoughts into what people write here- but clearly that happens. Thank you all again for your help.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Jurs I stated for a fact that I was not a member of this religion and that I went with my wife. They do not call me brother. I also know that nowwhere in anything that I wrote did I call anyone a name or accuse anyone of anythng. I told how I saw things ans aksed why you guys like to keep rehashing this stuff. Youguys started the rest of the stuff- reas for yourself. I kept on going back to my origianl question. Some here tried to turn this into a personal thing- wasnt me.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
I gotta laugh. Ash I never said- not once- no where no how- did I say the jw's were great or good. Did not happen. Rather I said I do understand the bad things in this religion. I asked only why you guys felt this need to keep fueling this thing. That is what I asked and I never once defended this religion or stood up for them. Where you guys read in my owrds that kind of stuff is beyond me. You guys like this kind of stuff and when someone asl why you start judging the person that asked and putting words in their mouths that are not there. Thank you all again. I have been told that I have no heart, that I do not love my parents and that I said many things I did not say. This is very strange here. And I can see why it is so easy to get upset here when people start all the judging and name calling and so forth. I never said what you guys claim I said. I said I do not believe what the jw's believe and I meant that. I said that I told them that also. Bad place to come here for a straight answer.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Good luck guys- When ya cant give a straight answer then ya gotta puck the question apart. You guys enjoy the wtchtower and you just love this stuff. Cnt figure out why, and you cant firgure out why either. But I knew that this 1 question would start up some BS here. Had words put in my mouth- accused of not having a heart and not loving my family. Now you guys can just go on and try to figure this out.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
You seem to be the one bitching sf- I - yes I just had a question- You da one dat done got da attitude and then gonna be tickled over it- And gain "I" said dat.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Mouthy I dont call it open minded I call it balance. And if my wife turns on me well she won't be the first and that will still be her choice and I will still not blame the religion she chose. That is not in defense of her religion That is balance. I dont care one way or the other about the witnesses. That is truth. The guys at the kingdom hall know that because I speak as plainly to them as I have here. Dont preach to me. I go with my wife and sit there and let them have their say. They have made thier choices and I make mine. My first wife made a choice to have an affair. I did not blame the guy she slept with. He did not steal my woman. She left me for him. The same with this religion. My wife made the choice. If it comes to the point where she feels the need to choose between me and her religion- again that is her choice. The religion did not leave me she did. And even if the religion is the reaon for her having left I would not hang around banging on that all my days. I know therapy. Someone said something about internalizing the problem. I never said that. The problem is already internal. The anger is internal. The attitude is internal. The hate is internal. A therapist takes you to a mirror and gets you to look inside. The therapist does not fuel your pain. She helps you get inside yourself and get past the pain. She helps you deal with it. She does not encourage you to expend vast amounts of energies placing blame elsewhere. We all have choices in life. Yes some choices were made for us before we were born. I often hear white people complaining that the blacks just cant get over it. They just won't move on. Some blacks have moved on rather well. But we now live at a time that no one wants to be responsible for the choices they made. We got to put the blame somewhere else. And from what I see if I sit down and take repsonsibility for my choices I get over things a lot quicker than when I keep pointing to others. In spain they take pride in a good con. They blame the so called victim for falling for the stuff. They force the victim to be responsible for falling for some crazy scam. That is rare today. We get angry when we were had by someone or something. In my opinion we get angry because we were silly enough to fall for the scam. Thats what we are really angry about. If you want to heal you have to look in the mirror. You have to look inside. You are the only thing you can change for sure. That is the way I see it. I will never let a religion or whatever control my life. Once I learn the game I leave it if it is a bad game. I take my losses and run. I amnot faulting anyone here. I just dont understand this thing. I do see what the witnesses have lead some people to do. I know that people shun their families and so forth. I know people let themselves die due to the blood thing. I know that dates have been said and on and on and on. What I dont know is why after learning all this would I want to keep going on and on and on about it. Why keep fueling this thing? Leave it. If I have a hard time getting over it- I get good help. I dont sit around reading the books and tearing them apart and reminding myself on a daily routine what I already know. Where does the need come in to track these people? I go to the kingdom hall, dont believe the stuff and never read any of it. It goes in one ear and out the other. You guys at least some say you spent years in this thing. Then you got out and you still go on and on and on. Is it a witness thing? Are you still uncertain that you should have left? Mouthy I dont know what to say. 75 and still want to talk about it. Like I said I dont understand. And from what I see I am not sure I ever do want to understand. I just never want to be eaten up for the rest of my life with something like this. Thanks again guys. I have no doubt that you all spoke your hearts. I know I spoke my heart.
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
I started to leave along time ago and the questions kept coming. Thank you all again. Sorry that I do not understand the whys. Hope I did not wear you guys out with the whys. Some of you admitted to attitudes and anger. That is just not me. LIfe is very short and when I die these things will still exist. When I look at history their has always been evil and good. There has always been a place to put blame for bad and blame for good. And I figure that will always be the case. My take on the whole thing is that I got to get something good out of my life in spite of all the bad. I cant go through life beating up people and religions that have hurt me or that I dont agree with. Those kind of religions and people- (after all that is what religion is = people-) will always be here. I would not want to grow old just to realize that I spent my life with an attitude. I can change me but I cant change anyone else. And maybe by the changes I make in me I can have a positive effect on others that may prompt them to change also. Picking something or someone apart just dont seem like it will bring about a good change in me or anyone else. I know that there are a lot of dangerous religions out there. Religion is a powerful thing. . But I figure outlawing religion is about like outlawing prostitution. It just hasnt helped yet. Its been around since the beginning of time. Man has killed man. Man has raped women and so forth since the beginning. With all that we have at our disposal today we still cant stop it. Thats why I called myself trybalance. You got to have balance to survive this thing. If I dwelt on all the car wrecks everyday I wouldnt get in a car. But I know that there are crazy drivers out there. I buckle up, keep my eyes open and move forward. I see people do very dangersou things on the road. And there are laws against it. There are police out there. But it still happens all the time. I still drive though. I dont let it overwhelm me. I had a good friend that died because of a stupid driver. I miss that guy. That driver took away a good friend. Nothing I can do will change that. The laws are already there and people still do stupid evil things. Like I said I just cant get overwhelmed by it. I dont save newspaper clipping about every bad driver that killed someone. I dont feel a need to talk about every accident in town where someone was killed. I realize that is was the driver that caused the problem not the car. Thats is about the way I see this thing. The religion has some screwed up stuff going on. But the person is the one that decided to take that ride and stay with it at all costs. But in this case when the person got off the ride they decided to stand around and pick the ride apart for a long time. They followed this ride around and monitored its speed and direction daily. They werent happy just to get off the ride. Even though some people have been on the ride all thier lives and seem quite content with the ride the person that got off seems not to be satisfied until they can convince everyone else that they must share thier view of the ride.
Iwasveryyoungonce I do not even read kingdom hall books. And I do not understand how you relate the word "dwelling" with ill or weak. I think those bonafide support groups are a good thing. I also think that they need to be lead by a trained therapist who can help people gain balance. And it seems to me that saying something negative about a former witness is equally as bad at least here. I just asked questions and shared a viewpoint. And yes I have studied quite a lot. I have an extensive library. As I stated I started reading these sites a good six months prior to putting my words here. I even told of a story I read on another site. But as I said I seem to feel the need to repeat myself a lot here for some reason.And I never said the jw's were balanced. I am not standing up for anyone here. I just asked a question. And that question sparked a lot. As someone said to me earlier- go back and read what I wrote. There just dont seem to be a reason to rewrite it.
I thank you all again for your time. I leave still wondering but I guess the answers are not easy.
I did just go back and reread everything that I wrote. Unless the words are coming out different on my screen than yours I am certain that I did not say anyone was weak, ill or wrong. I only told things the way I am and the way I feel and see it then asked why you felt the way you did. I appreciate those that gave honest answers. Anyone that reads through this thing will see that one is easily accused of saying things they did not say here. Even though I was called heartless and told that I did not love my family I did not respond in the same fashion.
Edited by - trybalance on 14 October 2002 5:14:42
Edited by - trybalance on 14 October 2002 5:42:46
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Iwasonceyoung- I do not recall calling anyone weak. I have asked a lot of why's based on the way I read things. It seems easy to get defensive and take things personal. I meant nothing of the sort. as I said earlier I say what I mean and mean what I say. When I read what you just wrote I can see your pain and anger. Again my question is why do you dwell on it? Why do you seemingly have a need to keep fueling this? I am not dissagreeing that these things happened. I am not saying that you were not hurt. I am onyl trying to find out why anyone would want to keep fueling pain. That is the part I dont get. I in no way think that any of this was easy on anyone nor am I saying that any of you guys are unhappy. I can only speak from a personal reference point. It is hard for me to see happiness in most of what I have seen here. It seems to me to just keep bringing up ugly things that you cannot change has no good value.. Why would you want to keep dwelling on it? If it is validation How do you get validation and healing from dwelling on the pain and the wrong that you have seen?
i'm a first time poster.
i'm not a jw.
my wife has been a jw for 5 years now.
Satan a homosexual chooses a lifestyle that they dont want to het away from. They are happy with that lifestyle. They need validation so they can continue in what makes them happy. Leaving a religion that hurt you and that you did not like takes ajustments also. I know a guy that is a homosexual. He went through professional therapy and got his validation from within. He is now well adjusted. That is what I am trying to say. To me anyway, this fueling ans dwelling on this thing never gets you validated or adjusted. And if you left the witnesses why would you go on being so concerned about what their thoughts were about a former witness. Why would you keep dwelling on all that? Hell I don't keep myself busy worrying about what people I dont hang with say about me. I have relatives that cant stand me. So be it. I certainly don't need validation that they are wrong about me. that is just their opinion. Like I said this is just hard for me to grasp. You hurt. I can understand that. Evil things happened. I can understand that. But going over and over this thing and keeping up with what these people are doing after you have left? Why? Why keep getting yourselves pissed off? It kind of makes me think about the guy that stalks his ex wife. Always thinking about who shes going to bed with and so forth. Why?
