Posts by robhic

11

Suggested Masthead for the New Improved Awake!

by AK - Jeff in

in thinking about the change to awake - it seems a new masthead would be in order.

i suggest;since 1980 we have been using this magazine and other printed propoganda in an all out effort to win the 'apostate wars'.

in addition, beginning shortly before we applied to the united nations for a library card, we began to publish very favorable political articles about that organization in order to curry favor, and to recieve the best possible seat upon the back of that horrific beastlike organization.

robhic

Very good!

11

I just don't get it

by robhic in

my poor jw girlfriend is in the hospital with some seizures and other related neurological problems.

she is heavily sedated, partially restrained, is generally "out of it", has no attention-span and her short-term memory is about 1-2 minutes sometimes.. now, much to their credit, some from her congregation and even an older elder (is that redundant?

) which, from the horror stories i've read here makes him an exception, visit regularly.

robhic

Wow, I am overwhelmed at all the (different) replies. I can understand the reasoning in each post. I guess there are a few ideas I would never have thought of except the one that placing the literature was just a reflex/habit. I'm not sure it was the elder placing the mags, I've never seen him with any. Probably some of the others. (This hospital is about 5 blocks from the KH...)

I am also finding it interesting how they treat me. No preaching, pushing beliefs, literature, etc. If I didn't know they were JWs and considered me the devil (or at least one of his henchmen...) the interaction I have with every single one so far has been surprisingly religiously neutral. Except for the prayers the elder feels compelled to say using "Heavenly Father Jehovah," religion and/or JW is nowhere to be found.

How can they stifle the prosletyzing reflex to a potential "target" but still leave literature that the patient can't see, probably wouldn't understand, can't hold it to read and can't even see that it's in her room (all above suggestions considered)?

Thanks so much to everyone for their time, information and good wishes. I appreciate it and it's doing as much to help her as the invocations to "Heavenly Father Jehovah..." is helping. I'd like to tell one of them that the next time they pray they'd probably ought to find another god because jehovah ain't doing anything so far. Maybe two weeks and as many trips to the hospital emergency isn't enough for him to consider? Not as important as praying for a parking spot or something...?

Thanks again to all,

Robert

t

11

I just don't get it

by robhic in

my poor jw girlfriend is in the hospital with some seizures and other related neurological problems.

she is heavily sedated, partially restrained, is generally "out of it", has no attention-span and her short-term memory is about 1-2 minutes sometimes.. now, much to their credit, some from her congregation and even an older elder (is that redundant?

) which, from the horror stories i've read here makes him an exception, visit regularly.

robhic

My poor JW girlfriend is in the hospital with some seizures and other related neurological problems. She is heavily sedated, partially restrained, is generally "out of it", has no attention-span and her short-term memory is about 1-2 minutes sometimes.

Now, much to their credit, some from her congregation and even an older elder (is that redundant?) which, from the horror stories I've read here makes him an exception, visit regularly. So much (OK, they live close to the hospital) that it is an annoyance to me and to some extent the family (who aren't JWs).

Now, here is my question: on the windowsill in her room are Watchtower and Awake! magazines. I really don't think she reads them at home (she isn't the best JW...) so how could anyone expect her to read this in the condition she is in? She couldn't really hold the mags, can't even get to them (!!!), wouldn't comprehend what she's reading and even if she could comprehend wouldn't remember it.

Can they really be expecting her to read these things? Is it just a reflex to place literature? It baffles me. Are they placing for someone else to take the literature? I see mags in the waiting room for that. But in this woman's room? Jeez, why?

Thanks for any insights.

25

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-06-05 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the february 6, 2005 wt study (january 1, 2005 issue)

review comments

will be in black and parentheses ().

robhic

If I ever find ANY church who elders will wash my feet, I'm joinin! S'pecially if the edlers are womens!

Gumby:

When I was a wee catholic lad, the priest used to wash the feet of certain people during one of the Easter services. I don't know if they still do that. I always thought it was gross and very unhealthy . But I used to also think it was kinda cool that, like a shoe salesman, the priest might be using it as an excuse to look up the babes' dresses.

All the later pedophelia scandals burst that bubble pretty quickly! You still might be able to find a catholic church to get a foot wash if you're still interested...

20

being a member of an organization

by sun_dae in

does anyone need to become a member of a religious organization to have access to the "truth"?

i mean, i never did know anything about the bible haven't a jw knocked my door.

it's only when i've had my regular study that i became interested with digging the truth.

robhic

Sun-dae, Sun-dae, Sun-dae. You obviously don't need an organization telling you what to think or you wouldn't be right here where you are today. You were able to think for yourself and decided to check things out. That, already, puts you one step ahead of the game.

The JWs discourage that, whether they'll admit it to you at this point or not, so you are already a candidate for "bad association" or some other archaic nonsense. You don't have to believe everything you read. Just read it! Then make up your own mind in your own time. You can do it.

Study, read, research and come up with what works for you. Would a truly loving, benevolent, god treat you like that monster of the Old Testament? I don't think so. That was to instill control (thru fear) in the troops. God loves you. He says it all over the Bible that you are reading.

Why would it be different if you are alone or a member of some high-control organization? Think about it...

Robert

20

being a member of an organization

by sun_dae in

does anyone need to become a member of a religious organization to have access to the "truth"?

i mean, i never did know anything about the bible haven't a jw knocked my door.

it's only when i've had my regular study that i became interested with digging the truth.

robhic

Don't you think God do have an organization here on earth whose purpose is to preach the truth, because it would be unfair if people do not know on how are they being judged.
Let me turn that around: What would you think of a God or other Supreme Being that would indescriminately kill innocent people that might not have had the chance to hear the teachings of his "specific organization"? That didn't know what standard by which they would be judged? Like people in China, some Muslim countries and small, unreachable populations? Would that be right?

Would a parent punish (not even kill...) a child that didn't follow the parent's rule ... even if this child was not their own and didn't even know the rules to begin with?

Who needs an organization? Did you need an organization to tell you that you were hungry, needed washing, drink, etc.? Why does thinking for oneself seem so impossible to some people? You already said you had the Bible to read. Could you not ask someone's opinion on parts you didn't understand or even just wanted someone else's opinion on? Who needs an entire organization?

I predict you'll be fine.

7

F&D Slave doctrine---timing

by tepic in

the f&d slave doctrine is what gives the wt it's control.

(my comments in blue)

it-1 p. 805 faithful and discreet slave ***

robhic

This makes for some interesting (and relevant) reading:

(And no, I didn't write this, it is a compilation made from a couple of different posters.)

" Heavy research is not necessary, the watchtower has done it all for you. The most beneficial study you can make is to read the Watchtower and Awake magazines or any new book by the organization"

Genesis 39:4-5 says that "Joseph found favor in his lord's sight and was pleasing to him, and he appointed him over his house, and all that he had he gave into Joseph's hand. And it happened that after he appointed him over his house, and over all that was his, the Lord blessed the house of the Egyptian." Does that sound familiar in any way? The statement bears close resemblance with the Parable of the Faithful and Wise Servant (Luke 12:42-46) which begins with the question, "Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom the lord appointed over his house to give them rations of food at the appointed time?" The resemblance in wording is especially close when we examine the original Greek:

(Leolaia)

===============================================================

One interesting observation that is of note is the two different positions that the WT religion teaches on the idea concerning the issue the Witnesses having to identify themselves as being a member of the Watchtower organization for their salvation One the one hand, it is taught that were one to impute salvation toward ?an organization? one would be engaging in a ?modern version of idolatry.? And yet, one the other hand, it is ?essential to their salvation? for a member of the Watchtower religion to ?identify themselves with Jehovah?s organization.? Indeed, two sets of scales is not good, and outright deception and intellectual dishonesty is seen clearly in that the WT teaches of these two different views. How the reader of WT publications could have missed this one in the exact same month is simply amazing. Note the following quotes.

We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry?be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. (1 Corinthians 10:14; 1 John 5:21)

And in the next breath?

*** km 11/90 p. 1 Directing Bible Students to Jehovah?s Organization ***

Directing Bible Students to Jehovah?s Organization 1 Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the ?one flock? Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah?s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established.

*** Rbi8 Proverbs 20:23 ***

23 Two sorts of weights are something detestable to Jehovah, and a cheating pair of scales is not good.

==============================================================

"Then Peter said, "Lord, are you saying this parable to us only, or also to all?" And Jesus said, "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master set down over his household to give them their food in due season?" (Luke 12:41, 42; Matthew 24:45)

All Jesus did was ask a question. Who really is...? Then, Jesus ANSWERS that question.

"Happy is that slave when his master UPON ARRIVING finds him doing so. Amen I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:46, 47; Luke 12:43, 44)

Has the Master arrived yet? (Matthew 24:30; 1 Corinthians 11:26) The 'faithful and discreet servant' has not and WILL NOT be 'identified' until the Master arrives. Why do we have to wait until the Master arrives? Jesus answers that too.

"But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart 'My master is delaying' and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the drunkards; the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and at an hour that he does not know, and will cut him in two and will assign him with the hypocrites. There is where the weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be." (Matthew 24:48-51; Luke 12:45, 46)

Jesus said the faithful slave could become wicked at ANYTIME. He doesn't say out in the open, but he says in his HEART 'My master is delaying.' No one can really know he is a wicked slave until the Master comes. Hence, if the slave is faithful even until the master returns (whenever he returns), he really is faithful. So no one will know who the faithful slave is (if there even is one) until the master arrives.

Further... They tell you that the faithful and discreet slave is the "mouthpiece" of God on earth. Is this true?

"God, who long ago on many occasions and in many ways spoke to our fathers by the mouth of the prophets has at the end of these days spoken to us by the mouth of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the system of things." (Hebrews 1:1, 2)

God in the past spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets, not an organization. The prophets on earth served as his mouthpiece to his people. In these last days, God speaks to us by the mouth of a Son. So the Son is God's "mouthpiece" today. How does the Son speak to us?

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me." (John 10:27)

"I have other sheep that are not of this fold, those also I must bring in, and they will LISTEN TO MY VOICE, and they shall become one flock with one shepherd." (John 10:16)

From where do they listen to his voice? Is it through an organization? From the Bible? The scriptures say:

"See that you do not beg off from him who is speaking. For if they did not escape who begged off from him who gave divine warning upon the earth, much more so we if we beg off from him who speaks FROM THE HEAVENS." (Hebrews 12:25).

So God speaks to us today by the mouth of his Son not through an organization, nor through the Bible... but directly "from the heavens."

22

607, 607, 607

by Pole in

hi scholar!

is that your phone number?

pole - ba and ma in linguistics

robhic

This simple yet explicitly detailed explanation by Alley Mom has always been my favorite. It is irrefuteable.

Just start with Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king, and work backward.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/1.ashx

2

need copy of brochure "What do JW's Believe"

by rebel8 in

i need this for a project i'm working on.

if you are willing to scan the entire brochure, including cover, please email it to me at [email protected]

robhic

I had done a small comparison of the box diagram at the bottom of the page at the website mentioned above. I went through it and discarded some points because they were jsut plain crazy and others because there was no good way and no real reason to dispute them. This is a point-by-point comparison of the rest with their quotes and my quotes that refute theirs across from them. OK, looks like the formatting didn't work (Word Perfect WPD document) so you can just line up the first statement from the website and its quotes then take the first set of quotes in red to see the scriptures I looked up that say the opposite:

Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him Matt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28

Christ was first of God's creations Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14

Christ died on a stake, not a cross Gal. 3:13; Acts 5:30

Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person 1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 6:9; Rev. 1:17, 18

Christ's presence is in spirit John 14:19; Matt. 24:3; 2 Cor. 5:16; Ps. 110:1, 2

We are now in the 'time of the end' Matt. 24:3-14; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; Luke 17:26-30

Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69

Kingdom will bring ideal living conditions earth Ps 72: 1-4; Rev 7:9-10, 13-17; 21: 3,4

People God approves will receive everlasting life John 3:16; 10:27, 28; 17:3; Mark 10:29, 30

Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with Christ Luke 12:32; Rev. 14:1, 3; 1 Cor. 15:40-53; Rev. 5:9, 10

Prayers are to be directed only to Jehovah through Christ John 14:6, 13, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5

A Christian should keep separate from world Jas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15; John 15:19; 17:16

Taking blood into body through mouth or veins violates God's laws Gen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 17:14; Acts 15:28, 29

A clergy class and special titles are improper Matt. 23:8-12; 20:25-27; Job 32:21, 22

Jud 1:4; Mat 4:7; Joh 10:30; Isa 43:11 & Luk 2:11; Joh 14:10-11

Joh 1:1; Col 1:15-17 & Isa 44:24

Phi 2:8; Mat 27:32; Joh 20:25

Luk 24:39; Joh 20:27, 21:12; Act 2:31; Rom 8:11

Relevance?

Proof?

Mat 24:35; Phi 3:20; Heb 1:10-11; Psa 46:6; Psa 102:25-26

Psa 46:6; Zep 1:18; Rev 21:1

Jehovah's Witnesses only?

Rev 7:9; Mat 18:3; 2Co 5:1; 1Th 4:17; Mat 5:3, 10

Mat 6:9; Act 2:21, 16:31; Rom 10:13

Act 2:32; Joh 15:17; Rom 3:22

Fractions? Lev 17:13

Governing Body, Circuit Overseer, Pioneer?

5

Birthdays and Embalming...

by undercover in

never thought you'd see those two things in one thread did you?

well, bear with me and see how i make the connection:.

jws don't celebrate birthdays for the following reasons:.

robhic

"Job 1:4 And his sons went and held a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them."