AGuest,
There's a brief article here which might help with 2 Corinthians 3:17
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/2Cor3_17.html
truthseeker
JoinedPosts by truthseeker
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truthseeker
Johnathan,
I only know you believe in the Trinity but so I can better understand you, please answer some questions.
What denomination do you represent?
Do you believe we pass over at death or do you think life ends at death?
Do you believe in Hell as a literal place of torment?
What is your view of the end times prophecies?
When you have the time.
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truthseeker
I notice a pattern. People like you can't handle the heat and resort to "running off" the critics, get rid of them, get them banished, libel them by claiming they are someone they are not, you know, devil tactics; all this because your type routinely get their hats handed to them, and deep down inside you know it, and you know you're wrong.
Johnathan,
I am not running away nor calling you names.
You have not won the argument, nor convinced me that Jesus is Yahweh.
And yes, you are judgemental, just like a super zealous pioneer who doesn't know when to stop.
We could go back and forth like this for ages.
You are referring to yourself in the third person, I have to ask why.
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truthseeker
You have some nerve saying this, when you gave me a bunch of scriptures on Christ being appointed. Seems it's one rule for you and another for everyone else.
A few obscure Bible sources doesn't make your point at all. The NWT isn't the only Bible who gets it wrong. You have a questionable rendering of one verse in Proverbs, and Christian trinitarians have a mountain of evidence to place your distortion into context. I acknowledge there are non-trinitarians out there. What you should be concerned about is how you misquoted your own bible. I'll go with the overwhelming weight of authority.
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truthseeker
Johnathan,
This is the first time you and I have corresponded on this forum, however, I do recognise the persona from another poster, also known as godrulz.
I think what did it was the use of the word "Arian" which is a term not commonly used around here.
Those who are true Christians (worship Jesus as YHWH, equal with the Father; either trinitarian or oneness/modalism, but not Arian or polytheism), let us pray and do spiritual warfare for those still deceived. Apologetics, love, prayer, support, encouragement, exposing error, defending truth, etc. can be part of our divine appointment here (as unpopular as we may become). Speak truth in love, listen, respect, glorify God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Rom. 1:16; I Jn. 5:11-13
I submit that you, Godrulz, are posting under a duplicate account named Johnathan Dough.
Your judgemental attitude contradicts your claim to be "a new creature in Christ"
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truthseeker
I'll say it again. If the Word was before all things, he could not be a thing, and could not be created. Col. 1:16, 17. I'm not the one out on a limb on this. 2 billion Christians and 2,000 years of theology back me up. I'm not the one being radical. You seem like a smart enough fellow, why do you dig your heels in so hard? Are you afraid of church? Are you looking for a reason not to join a religion? I don't understand you arians.
Concerning "all things" I am talking about our physical universe. Christ existed before then.
I am not afraid of church and I do not go to the Hall anymore. I am not looking for a reason to do either at this point in time but who knows?
I have to go now but will be back tomorrow to check for replies.
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truthseeker
More for you. I use Bible Gateway.
Proverbs 8:23-31
The Message (MSG)
22-31 "God sovereignly made me—the first, the basic—
before he did anything else.
I was brought into being a long time ago,
well before Earth got its start.Proverbs 8:23-31
New Century Version (NCV)
23 I was created in the very beginning,
even before the world began.
24 I was born before there were oceans,
or springs overflowing with water,Proverbs 8:23-31
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
23 I was formed at the very beginning.
I was formed before the world began.
24 Before there were any oceans, I was born.
There weren't any springs of water at that time.Proverbs 8:23-31
New International Version (NIV)
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.Do you get my point? I am not using the NWT.
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truthseeker
The Trinity boils down to traditions taught by man.
Matthew 15:5-9 "But you say, 'Whoever tells his father or mother, "Whatever benefit you might have received from me is a gift [committed to the temple]"— he does not have to honor his father.' In this way, you have revoked God's word because of your tradition. Hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you when he said: These people honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men."
Jesus revealed how hypocritical the traditionalists are.
They claim to honor Christ and God with their lips, but invalidate the truth of God's Word.
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truthseeker
Definition of "form"
Don't quibble over words, of course I meant the act of creating, form, make, what difference does it make?
Proverbs 8:23-31
Good News Translation (GNT)
23 I was made in the very beginning,
at the first, before the world began.
24 I was born before the oceans,
when there were no springs of water.v.formed, form·ing, forms v.tr. 1. a. To give form to; shape: form clay into figures. b. To develop in the mind; conceive: form an opinion. 2. a. To shape or mold (dough, for example) into a particular form. b. To arrange oneself in: Holding out his arms, the cheerleader formed a T. The acrobats formed a pyramid. c. To organize or arrange: The environmentalists formed their own party. d. To fashion, train, or develop by instruction or precept: form a child's mind. 3. To come to have; develop or acquire: form a habit. 4. To constitute or compose a usually basic element, part, or characteristic of. 5. a. To produce (a tense, for example) by inflection: form the pluperfect. b. To make (a word) by derivation or composition. 6. To put in order; arrange. v.intr. 1. To become formed or shaped. 2. To come into being by taking form; arise. 3. To assume a specified form, shape, or pattern.
Proverbs 8:23-31
Common English Bible (CEB)
23 I was formed in ancient times,
at the beginning, before the earth was.Proverbs 8:23-31
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
23 to create the earth.
At the very first,
the LORD gave life to [ a ] me. 24 When I was born,
there were no oceans
or springs of water.
Proverbs 8:23-31
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
23 I was formed a long time ago,
before the world was made.
24 I was born before there was an ocean,
before the springs began to flow.Proverbs 8:23-31
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
23 I was appointed from everlasting
from the first,
before the earth began.
24 I was born
before there were oceans
before there were springs filled with water. -
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truthseeker
I am not a JW anymore, I do not believe most of what they teach. That's not to say that some things taught by them are still with me, I'm still working out the kinks.