Posts by Tuesday

126

PROVE that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth".

by undercover in

jw
friends

minimus started a thread asking people to prove that jws don't have the truth.... but, instead of proving they don't, i'd like to see someone prove that the witnesses do have the truth.. this is your thread jw apologists....convince me why you have the truth.. to all you apostates and nay-sayers, please allow the apologists to have their say without harrassing them.

.

Tuesday

Hi Reniaa,

A response to your previous post, context I think is a stupid thing to debate as it really just means "what you say doesn't agree with the way I interpret other scriptures".

"I and the father are one (oops and the holy spirit)"

and the question is.. One what? it doesn't say God even if like most trinitarians you imagine it there.

At John 17:20-23, Jesus prays for his disciples, "that they may all be onejust as as You Father are in me and I in You.... that, they may be one, just as we also are one." I think we can be pretty sure this does not add us to the Trinity and make us "God." Here we can see clearly that Jesus sees this oneness in terms signficantly different than what the Trinitarian would have us believe. The Trinitarian would like to pretend that Jesus was here praying for a oneness that is different than the oneness he declared at John 10:30 despite the fact that Jesus here twice says, "JUST AS WE ARE ONE."

I firmly believe this is a passage showing oneness of purpose and unity works showing that unity.

Ah, but according to what context. This is simply the way you interpret this scripture, while others would interpret it completely differently. You make it seem like you can't firmly believe something and be firmly duped. You also (possibly conviniently) forgot to bring in the verse right before hand that says "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word" which means when he's talking about unity of him and the Father and the disciples and Jesus he's talking about in their word which would mean in what they're teaching. So it's a completely different situation than what happened in John 10:30 where Jesus is DIRECTLY addressing the pharasees regarding saying he is the Christ. He tells them the gift The Father gave him, that they would not believe what he tells them because they are not his followers and finishes up with his strongest statement "I and The Father am One."

To me I don't see what it matters as no matter how many scriptures you quote I'll have several to refute it, no matter how many scriptures I have you'll have some more to refute it and either of us could be right and either of us could be wrong. You even put in your response that you believe, not that you KNOW.

As for other denominations, christeldelphians do not teach a real satan he is seen by them as some sort of nature we battle :sthey also tithe and celebrate certain Jewish festivals I think they may also keep the sabbath.

So what have you seen the Devil? You have proof he exists? Let me guess you're going to say that the bible refers to him as a person so that makes him exist. As if the bible never speaks in metaphor, I'm supposing the Old Man and Lazarus both exist, next the Prodigal Son must actually exist.

While bible students have good basic russel teachings they have no growth within their church.

Again we come back to growth in the church? Remember I said earlier that if growth is really proof of being the right religion then Islam, Mormonism, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc. must all be more favored than Jehovah's Witnesses.

Of course you're going to say "in THOSE cases it doesn't show divine approval, but in JWs case it does." What about the scripture "cramped is the road and narrow is the path that leads to everlasting life." You also just posted a scripture on the Mormons vs JWs thread that said few would be the ones finding the truth. So you're contradicting yourself, which is it? If the JWs are growing more than the Associated Bible Students according to the scriptures saying the true religion would be small the Associated Bible Students must be right.

3

My Rant About Children Dying For Their Parent's Beliefs...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i thought some folks here would enjoy the video, it's a bit different than my series "tough questions for jehovah's witnesses" in that it's my opinion and said more in a stream of thought instead of deliberately trying to get every single word right.

i think i've been watching sean kennedy too much and listening to bill hicks too much lately though lol.

the audio for my talking part is loud, so a bit of a warning if you're around people you might want to turn the sound down.

Tuesday

I thought some folks here would enjoy the video, it's a bit different than my series "Tough Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses" in that it's my opinion and said more in a stream of thought instead of deliberately trying to get every single word right. I think I've been watching Sean Kennedy too much and listening to Bill Hicks too much lately though LOL. The audio for my talking part is loud, so a bit of a warning if you're around people you might want to turn the sound down. I got some complaints about my other videos being too soft so I think I overcompensated. Without further ado, my new Series "How DOES The World Work?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ISLB-r6Xk

54

Romans 10:13 - got owned in a jw study. need help with greek.

by bohm in

for reasons i have posted on another topic i have become involved with a study with a rather knowledgeable jw.

i try to stay clear of the scripture (im an atheist who have never read the bible so i have desided to agree with his interpretation of the scripture for the sake of argument, however to say that when it come to interpretations of the bible, there are also many other ways to think about it, and it require significant research for me to commit to one particular view).

we talked about how you know jehovahs witness have the truth and ofcourse the conversation went into the usual topics like using the name jehovah (however, it did end where i felt it should, on jesus selection in 1918, more on that on another thread).

Tuesday

When he talks about Greek and Hebrew just ask him what formal training he has in ancient Greek and Hebrew. When he tells you none, ask him how he knows that the translation he's using is correct. Follow up with what translator is he using, what are their qualifications. How does he know the translator he's using is right and others are wrong?

126

PROVE that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth".

by undercover in

jw
friends

minimus started a thread asking people to prove that jws don't have the truth.... but, instead of proving they don't, i'd like to see someone prove that the witnesses do have the truth.. this is your thread jw apologists....convince me why you have the truth.. to all you apostates and nay-sayers, please allow the apologists to have their say without harrassing them.

.

Tuesday

Yay I got Reniaa's attention, now I get to show you why you're dead-ass wrong.

lol tuesday lots of claims but no proof.

How so, you mean where I said there were other religions that believe stuff. I see the same out of JWs, hundreds of claims no iron-clad proof. Just interpretations upon interpretations.

I'm betting the Jws have the mormons beat of preaching worldwide.

Oh I'm betting they don't since it's a requirement of Mormons to preach for 2 years. I did find a graph of the ratio to converts to preaching and surprise, surprise it's MUCH higher than JWs. I'm looking for the hour count, or a number of missionaries so I can calculate an approximate number, but from what I've read thus far it's at the least on par and at most FAR greater than the hours JWs spend in the ministry.

I'm also betting the few religions you dragged up that believe in one God are the only ones you could find (and most of them are just offshoots around the Jws)

I mentioned the three for a reason, The Associated Bible Students stuck with the teachings of Russell which means JWs would be an off-shoot of them. The Dawn Bible students are an off-shoot of JWs and the Christadelphians have never had anything to do with JWs.

and in comparison there are 34,000 trinitarian christian denominations.

That would be quite an amazing thing since there are only 33,380 different denominations of Christianity as a whole. So if that's true, that must mean JWs believe in a trinity since with your stat all Christian denominations believe in a trinity.

Islam is a bible predicted faith it is meant to be big, as God promised ishmael but it will still have to answer to God for it's ways.

Very vague, thanks for that.

Thousands of religions may believe Jesus is the son of God but they also paradoxically believe he is God as well. They think Jesus is one of 3 who's in one 'what' and that 'what' is God and that just simply isn't biblical. their main proof texts were proven false and now they scrabble around trying to construct it with pieces of out of context scripture or gramatically challenged scripture. Here is a scripture spoken by Jesus himself that completely defines that he isn't God.

And John 10:30 "I and the Father am one" is out of Jesus' mouth that he is. I'm sorry Reniaa, but so F'n what! There are thousands of religions that do believe Christ is God's son and not God. This is not an exclusive concept to Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact I'd be hard-pressed to find one single, solitary teaching that JWs hold that other religions don't as well. In fact many of them are held by the same religions. Sorry to burst your bubble but there's nothing special about JWs.

And from a later post...

I don't need to prove it, I am happy that the bible is God's word and the Jws are the one religion that is following it the most closely atm.

Ah dear, until you have literally looked and worshipped at every single one of those 33,380 different denominations of Christianity then you can't accurately say that can you? You're just lying.

I for one would be SHOCKED if you could tell me definitive differences in doctrine between the Associated Bible Students, Dawn Bible Students and Christadelphians from what JWs teach currently.

145

Are You Still Thrilled With President Obama?

by minimus in

jw
friends

his motto is "yes we can!

" has he done what you expected?

any concerns?

Tuesday

I voted for Obama based on his campaign promises, thus far he has done none of what he said. If this changes so will my support. Right now I'm not thrilled with him.

126

PROVE that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth".

by undercover in

jw
friends

minimus started a thread asking people to prove that jws don't have the truth.... but, instead of proving they don't, i'd like to see someone prove that the witnesses do have the truth.. this is your thread jw apologists....convince me why you have the truth.. to all you apostates and nay-sayers, please allow the apologists to have their say without harrassing them.

.

Tuesday

My thoughts on the reasons so far...

Because they have love amongst themselves?

Is it only amongst themselves, I thought that the true religion would also love their neighbors as themselves and love their enemies? But let's take a look at the love they show amongst themselves, what happens if a brother amongst them sins? The love goes away.

They alone know God's Name.

They know a mis-translation and nothing more.

they spend billions of hours preaching

So do the Mormons, does that make them the right religion?

the best translation of the bible

OK, as soon as I can see a comparitive study by a linguist with a credible background in studying ancient Greek and Hebrew I'll believe it. It would also help if you could show me the credentials of those who did the translation so I can compare it to the credentials of those who translated the other bibles.

They and only they have the light and wisdom that the faithfull and discreet slave

Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? That's what Jesus asked, the WT answers that it's all the anointed on Earth, do you think they're writing the "light" you're reading? Whos' to say they're the faithful and discreet slave anyway, where's the proof of that. People have called themselves the Messiah before, it didn't make it so.

If they don't have the truth then what else is there? Where else can they go brother?

There are 33,380 different denominations of just Christianity, until you research them all you can't say there's nothing better out there.

Well, nobody else is right.

See last response.

The WTS/JWs are the only ones preaching the good news of the kingdom worldwide.

Actually they're not preaching in as many places as other religions do. So either other religions who are preaching in every country the bible are correct, or you have to preach specifically what JWs teach in which case since JWs don't preach that worldwide they wouldn't be truth either.

No trinity + no hell + paradise earth + preaching work + no pagan holidays + no going to war = the most pure Christian religion

There are literally thousands of Christian denominations that believe all that stuff. Associated Bible Students, Dawn Bible Students, Christadelphians just to name a few.

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

How do you know the JWs are those true worshipers worshipping in spirit and truth?

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does

There are WAY more concientious objectors to war than just JWs. Again there are thousands of religions that don't go to war, Quakers, Amish, to name two.

Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Cool, next time you see a JW perform a sign while preaching you send 'em my way because I don't fucking believe it.

Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

Thousands of religions preach, are they all correct as well?

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

See above.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

JWs are not preaching in as many countries as other religions are, does that mean the other religions are right?

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."

To all creation now, would that mean if I saw a religion that not only preached to people but I saw them talking to trees, cows, and migets I shouldn't think they're crazy but join them right away?

They don't go to war.

Along with thousands of other religions.

They have love among themselves.

Define loving.

They're fulfilling Matthew 24:14.

See above, they're not preaching it worldwide. However other religions are, does that mean the other religions are right? JWs also fufill Matthew 24:23-26.

They wear suits.

So do business men and vacuum sellers.

They alone are using the name Jehovah.

No they're not, but it really doesn't matter since it's not really God's name anyway.

Because our ranks are growing,

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, maybe I should convert!

God blesses our preaching work

How so, billions of hours spent preaching for a 1% growth.

we are persecuted which Jesus said would happen

Who's having more trouble with being banned in countries and how it's portrayed in the media JWs or Scientology? There was a protest at my state house a month ago against Scientology, I don't know of any protests EVER happening against JWs. That must mean Scientology is the right religion, better check my thetans.

we promote happy family life and clean moral standards.

So did Ted Haggard. So does Billy Graham, so do the republicans, so do the democrats, so does Richard Dawkins, so does Bill Clinton...OK so maybe not Bill Clinton.

The bible tells me Jesus is the SON of God so that is what I believe. Do you know Jesus calls his father 'my god' all the time even after going to heaven many times in revelation etc yet God never calls Jesus 'my God' only 'my son'.

Thanks Reniaa, there are thousands of religions that believe that. Glad you narrowed it down for me.

5

Anyone want to help with my next video (will be fun)...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

i hope it gives you hell, i hope it gives you hell.

Tuesday

One quick BTTT for people who might not have seen this post. Again if anyone would like to do this please contact me.

Thanks!

30

PROVE That Jehovah's Witnesses Are Not "The Truth"

by minimus in

jw
friends

there are a few here that say we are not being fair and that we wrongfully bash the witnesses.. simply prove that the religion is not correct by any standard..

Tuesday

We're on too broad of a subject, the first question to ask someone who demands this of you is:

What do you feel that if I showed you Jehovah's Witnesses either did, taught, or were incorrect on would convince you that they are not the truth?

Once the person gives the answer we can move on showing them how whatever they stated is actually true about Jehovah's Witnesses.

If the person answers "Nothing" then answer with "Then you are not a reasonable person and are not searching for truth. A reasonable person would be able to be convinced through evidence and a person seeking truth would have qualities that define that truth."

65

Unloaded on the husband of my wife's study sister last night, how much damage did I do to myself??

by insearchoftruth in

well had a really good weekend away from home, but i guess i knew that the respite from the wts would end.

tuesdays are the day my wife has her personal bible study with the sister and she has also had the husband come over on tuesday afternoons so the son can have the pleasure of a bible study (which he loathes, he is a high school junior and has no interest in this stuff).

i get home from work late, after a fairly long day and the guy is still there.

Tuesday

Something to think about if he ever offers himself up to you again.

If he starts bashing Catholics ask him straight out "What's so wrong about Catholics?"

More than likely he'll answer regarding their wrong teachings. That's where you talk about how he kept mentioning "New Light" and would that mean that chances are JWs are teaching something wrong right at this moment. Basically that leads to asking if Armageddon came tomorrow and JWs were teaching something wrong why would they be in a different boat than the Catholics, they're both teaching something wrong. Does God show some sort of favoritism? Would you think that's fair?

Just a thought though, I doubt highly he's going to attempt another conversation with you.

22

JWs who don't believe they have the truth. What percent?

by I quit! in

jw
friends

every year i think about this and i believe every year the percent goes up but it is hard to know what the number is because any doubting jw lives in fear of being found out.

they know how their lives would be permanently changed if they openly stated that they just couldn't believe it anymore.

i think there could be kingdom halls were 50% of the people attending don't believe they have the truth but think they are the only one that feels that way because every other doubter is doing the same thing they are doing.

Tuesday

I think that the percentage is actually pretty low that are hardliner "this is the truth" people. I would say about 10% at most. I think there's about 30% probably higher who don't really think about it and are going to meetings and agreeing with it because they're kind of following the crowd, or their group of people they know. I think another 30% are along the lines that it may not really be "the truth" but it's the closest thing to it out of the religions, and I'd say another 30% are stuck in and want to leave but are held in by family ties.