Posts by latinthunder

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

You don't seem willing to take the effort to bridge the knowledge gap via learning; I call that bog-standard laziness laziness. In the "real World", no one spoon-feeds knowledge to you, as if you're entitled to it: that approach largely doesn't exist (outside of cults).

I am constantly studying and learning, your accusation is spurious. I am desperately trying to bridge the gap, but I am only one man. How much time do you spend learning about the supernatural? Oh, that's right you've already concluded it doesn't exist which stops your research cold.

BTW, you can't even be bothered to direct your mental resources to learn the basics of the beliefs you profess to live by, speaking of which: did you ever publicly apologize for misleading readers by falsely claiming how you found the Talmud to be particularly helpful to use in combination with the Torah (to help you build your faith as a Unitarian), when it later became obvious that you didn't even actually KNOW what the Talmud is?

I was accidently switching concepts, which I tend to do. When I said "Talmud" I meant "Hebrew Scriptures." All of my points still stand with that correction in terminology. I apologized to you in PM, I don't need to apologize to anyone else.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Sab - You want to play tennis without a net. No thanks.

Correction, I wan to play tennis ON the net, and you are walking off the court. Tennis elbow or something?

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

you don't want to find answers you are looking for questions, though they have no meaning.

What in blazes does that mean?

It is like trying to converse with people in a a lauguage they don't speak or understand whilst they try to denounce the rules of the language.

That's a fitting description of how I feel when I speak to you and people like you. My language is not something you can understand so you just denounce it as foolish (btw I don't think you or Science are foolish, I just see you as different). You don't seem willing to spend the mental resources it takes to bridge the gap. I call that intellectual laziness. It's just like how Dawkins in his special left the psychic. He took him for a fool or a fraud, but never proved he was. He's just hoping that his watchers will agree with him. I call that groupthink.

go away and do a course in science, seriously, if it means so much to you both, to question it. Go put hard cash on the table and pay for an education, argue with your tutors all day about observing the unobservable and accomplishing things never seen before such as raising the dead with your mind.

Why would I break the bank to argue with scientists when I can do it for free online? Are you saying that I shouldn't be allowed to question science without spending money? That's a strange notion, maybe it's just your exasperation speaking.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Tell that to the duckbill platypus or the paddle fish.

I thought it was only religionists who believed in talking animals ;)

I said that animals don't have the capacity to understand, or comprehend, electromagnetism. Just as they can't comprehend their own ability to smell, taste, see, hear and feel. They are not concerned with the concepts because they are not evolved enough. My point was about the transcendental nature of human evolution, which did start in the animal kingdom. It's a tumultuous process becoming aware of forces greater than yourself. Incremental; gradual.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

My favourite &'worst is "sometimes the unobservable is observed" ... Wow that is dumb, if'it is obseved we can test it ..... But we never do.

I would imagine that a scientist would know that when humankind observes something new for the first time, that's it's going to be hard to pin down. Why does science take so long? Because it's an incremental process. Just because we can observe something, like the effects of electromagnetism, doesn't mean we know and can test everything about it. Why DON'T we have it all mapped out? We ARE observing it on a regular basis?

We are a transcendent species, which means what's NOT observable to us at a certain point of time MAY be observable in another. To animals electromagnitism isn't something they are concerned with because they lack the capacity to understand it. Yet, through the process of evolution they eventually developed a high thinking mind and were able to comprehend and manipulate it. The awareness of electromagnistism came through an incremental process of comprehension.

Similar to science our interactions with the great beyond is also an incremental process. Again, we call this revelation which Thomas Paine so aptly described as a personal experience which could not be empirically demonstrated to others. He didn't say the supernatural didn't exist, he said that it was mysteriously confined to the experiencers. That's why I brought up the psychic in the Dawkins series "Enemies of Reason" a few posts ago. He can ONLY corroberate evidence with others of his peer review group. There is a brick wall between his experiences and the scientific community because his was one of personal revelation. Dawkins has no choice but to leave him to his devices, but he doesn't have to accuse him of fraud or stupidity.

latin and seraphim both go to hospital when sick, not their minds or a crystal store on ebay....when life and death is in the balance they snap out of the woo and come to science.... At least, I really sincerely hope they do.

Of course I go to the hospital when I am sick, if I have the money.

That is me signing out, I come here and give my time to help people with genuine questions and wanting to understsnd science, as,I once did, not to argue the unknowns. You two may think it is funny or entertaining to use JW logic in seeking uninforrmed back doors to deny reality...but people will read this,and get caught up in your woo. Every time you read of someone denying science for woo and hurting themselves, know that such illogical, uneducated, unintelligent, unscientific, biased, bullshit...harms people. Do not dare joke or take that sentence lightly, children die in the hands of parents denying science and administering prayer or spirit or some other woo.... There have been several cases in the last 5 years and it amounts to child abuse, what you promote is no joke, it is no HOBBY latin, maybe it is time to grow up.

Snare, I strive to provide the antithesis to the thesis, which has the nifty result of synthesis. I like to provide the other side of the coin especially on a forum with lots of one side. I actually take faith healing very seriously. The hobby is foruming, not faith healing.

How many people in your medical career are you going to have to tell they are going to die no matter what? Remember, I said that I wanted to fill the holes Science leaves behind, not replace it. I OBSERVE the failings of Science and wish to suppliment, it's not the devious cause as you making it out to be. I simply reject the idea that all we have is Science which comes with an extreme amount of suffering. We are both doctors in our own respect because we both seek to heal our fellow man. I highly respect people like you who work hard for the benefit of others. Please don't get the idea that I believe you are obsolete in any way, shape or form.

I think it's important to point out that I totally logically agree with everything you have said thus far, minus the ad hominems. My logical mind says, YES faith healing is NOT a replacement for the medical industry, at least not yet. But there is something IN me besides my logical mind and it tells me there is something more. As I look back in the historical record I see nothing but endless possibility. I see people being raised from the dead, the sick being cured and then, for some reason, it all melts away like a painting getting wet. My gut tells me it was real, not my logical processors. I have faith that we can bring it back, and I know if it were true even you would get on board. Because in the end we both want the same thing, life to the FULL.

Enjoy arguing with the findings of reality for the rest of your life, keep in mind where you turn to when you need technology, medicine and answers and i'll go on supportimg the looking for such findings so we can help more people like you.

OK, but I ask you to keep in mind who the patients you claim have no hope to live turn to.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Read a lengthy post about relativism or stick pins in my eyes? hmmm tough choice.

Hyperbole!

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

So since you have been away you have graduated to believing you can raise the dead. Who would have thought it?

Until someone beats me to it! Remember this important caveat, that I believe ANYONE can do it. We just need more ambition and less apathy.

Still hijacking words like "reality", "rational", "logic" and "reason" I see.

Rationally speaking, words continue to evolve meaning. That's why they have the ability to hold multiple definitions at once. Hijacking implies some sort of illegal action, which is not the case with me. I simply want to enrich the english language by not acting like it's written in stone. I could go on all day about how it's irrational assert the existence of an objective reality, which you do so very often, but I'll have to save it for another day, as I lack the time.

Hi Sab - missed you

Hi Cantleave, thanks! Missed you too!

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Hi Sab

What? Why wasn't your next guess Jim Carrey like it was supposed to be! Hi Cofty.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Say hello to Rose Mary for me.

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

latinthunder

Adam:

Willy Wonka: But Charlie, don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.
Charlie Bucket: What happened?
Willy Wonka: He lived happily ever after.