Posts by kelsey007

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

Venice, maybe you and I are of a dif school. Mr Franz is a well known person. Mr Bowen contacted him seeking whatever. Without Mr Franz's being aware Mr Bowen make strong public statements that condemned Mr Franz for his comments. Likewise, still of a dif school, I would never post private communication from my own mother in an effort to further my cause- whatever that cause may be- especially without consent of my mother....... I will say no more on that subject because clearly we come from differing schools of thought in that regard.

BTW With all due respect to Simon who provides us with this wonderful forum I do not play simon says.

Edited by - kelsey007 on 27 October 2002 20:10:49

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

As I stated JT it was on the volunteer basis. Iwent for the building project. Ran pipes for conduit. It was jsut within that year. I actually packed my bags and left in disgust well before my stay was supposed to be up.

BTW after returning to the congration I was associated with I only attended 2 or 3 meetings and promptly stopped all together.

FYI For those who have not had the experience at orientation at bethal they tell you that you may see some nagative things at bethal that you are not to share with the R&F back home.

Edited by - kelsey007 on 27 October 2002 19:50:13

Edited by - kelsey007 on 27 October 2002 19:51:55

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

Mr Bowen shared private information gained from a private phone call in a public forum. Mr Bowen also posted a personal letter from his own mother on his web site- this is what is wrong. He owes me nothing- no apology- nothing. Just dont confuse the issue because he wrote a well worded defense to his side of the ray franz story that he started without mr franz's knowledge.

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

No dutchie- not true- just in reading the post here I felt the real issue was missed. Mt Bowen told in depth his side of the story. It would have been better that he just say "It was a private conversation- and I should not have shared the private conversation with others in a public forum." But instead he sought to justify his view of the conversation.

This should not go down as Mr Bowen was right or Mr Franz was right. The wrong was the posting of such to begin with. That is what needs to be addressed. ONe who post personal letters from mom on the internet and slings mud from private conversations on the internet does not get my vote.

Edited by - kelsey007 on 27 October 2002 19:38:35

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

I still thought the issue was not who was right but the wrongness of Mr Bowen posting such things here... personal attacks whether true or false do no advantage to the movement.

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kelsey007

As one that was raised in the WT and have had experience with Bethal I personally do not find it hard to believe that A Ray Franz might not be aware of the problem. Given his reasonable nature I also can see why he would ask for more documentation and proof. It seems this whole thing was started due to his lack of supportive statements to the press. Again, Mr Bowen you are the one that has been dealing with the hundreds of alledged victims and you are the one that has a feel for the validity of the seriousness of the matter. At 80 years of age I doubt that Mr Franz is seeking to CYA so to speak. Could it not be that only certain members of the GB are privy to knowledge of the amounts of abuse accusations in the org? At any rate such public statements (online or otherwise) take away from the stated intent of silent lambs IMHO.

In 1993 at Bethal I sat with A. Schroder at the Bethal breakfast table- Was his mind on oraganizational or spiritual matters? No, he was reading the Wall Street Journal. My point being that just by being a member of the GB does not nake one a spritual giant or make them tuned in to organizational matters. What I saw at Bethal at that time was what made me run from the org. I already had years of concerns with organizational procedures and my volunteer stint at bethal was my last visit to a KH. The things I saw had such a profound effect on me that I literally packed and left after my assigned work one day. Bethal is not a seat of spiritual activity. The GB is more tuned in to financial matters than WT policy that so drastically effects 6 million people daily.

108

The Real Truth About Raymond V. Franz Revealed!

by bjc2012 in

jw
friends

and for those reasons, coj wanted in the beginning, to stay with the organization, just like bill bowens.

that is all carl wanted.

yes, as members of the governing body, they knew full well, exactly what carl's writings meant.

kelsey007

deddaisy said: "Mr. Bowen, I believe, even though stepping down as an elder, etc., did not wish to be disfellowshipped. Being a disfellowshipped Witness would create a barrier between him and some abuse victims. As we all know, those in good standing are to refrain from communicating with a disfellowshipped person."

Given MR Bowen's length of time in the org as well as his position of elder he should have well known that by just stopping meeting attendance he would loose status to aid anyone in the WT. He should also have known that making statements like "spank those bad boys" and calling the WT a "pediphile paradise" was certainly not going to win him favor with the org. The mere fact that you are not df'd does not mean that you have not been marked. Most here know what I am talking about. Mr Bowen lined himslef up for disfellowshipping. He was and is disgruntled over WT policy in regards to pediphiles. His actions, words and comments-especially after having removed himself as elder and stopping meeting attendance gave a loud indication that he no longer wanted to be part of the org. If he had wanted to aid and make himself available to "good standing" JW's he should have approached his campaign in a more subtle fashion.

3

Understanding- a two way street

by kelsey007 in

jw
friends

maybe some here have fell victim to mr bowen's abusive speech.

i am sure some have not, but others were attacked.

and maybe those that have been verbally abused by bowen would love to be more involved in the plight of abuse victims but due to this abusive language find themselves in a very uncomfortable situation- they need to know that the motivations of mr bowen are good and due to personal attacks they are greatly saddened and hurt.

kelsey007

Personally I am not seeking an apology. Hard to believe- just waiting this thing out and venting in the mean time. Time heals as they say. Time also tells the story. Hopefully the things that have been posted by those that have been hurt here have had an impact. I do not think anyone wants the cause to fail. Criticisms exist because of fear that bad conduct may cause the movement to fail.

Thanks for asking about Jon. He has his first set of new feet. Very excited by th way. Next Wed. he gets another set- these will be spring loaded and put bounce in his step so to speak. It has been a long road for us both. Thank you again.

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