//Berten:
"Where do you see them laughing? I think they are taking this matter seriously."
Check the "Panorama kicks butt" thread, & you'll get my drift.
Posts by Dacke
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36JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
From the BBC website:
' And if a member of the congregation is suspected or even convicted of child abuse, this fact is kept secret.
Bill Bowen, from Kentucky in the United States, resigned as an elder in 2000 in protest at this child protection policy. He told Panorama:
"These men remain anonymous to anyone outside the organisation and anyone really inside the organisation unless you are personally reporting the matter." '
(highlighted by me)
My question to Mr Bowen: Who's fault is it that convicted child molesters aren't known to the public?
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
//Sirona,
all that above wasn't aimed at you :-) , i left a margin in between there, just wanted to throw in some more thoughts, they weren't meant to any one person in particular, but it looks like i'm answering on stuff you've said that you obviously haven't, sorry about that :-/
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
//sirona
where the problem lies? IMHO, rapists should be castrated.
The idea of making public any allegations, names & photos....i really don't know if that's a good idea. There are a lot of laws concerning personal data. I'm pretty confident JW make sure their policies adhere to national & international law. They said JW refuse to hand out info. Yet, they had an example of the girl's info, which they requested, and got. She must have agreed to show that card for the camera. But if she had refused, there's no way in hell they could have done that, without risking being taken to court.
The matters aren't all that easy, and i was hinting earlier at legislation concerning private data. Before slagging off JW, make sure you've got room to speak. Worldly law (including punishment for paedophilia) leaves a lot to be desired.
Also, I think some people have other reasons for critizicing JW, and jump the bandwagon. Unfortunately, they're not making the victims any favours by laughing at these misfortunes, and bring up stuff they don't like about JW that has got zip all to do with child abuse. I mean, say what you like, of course, but to try and knit it in with whatever is happening at the moment...they should have some more respect for the victims and not be so busy with their own feelings. My 2 cents worth - all self-righteous and everything.
//plmkrzy:
"Why do they have to SHUN victims for reporting the abuse to police? "
They don't "have to". Let's see if the Rugby chaps get shunned. Since I live in London, I might be able to check that out. I've got connections with a congo where a child abuse case resulted in a "brother" being jailed in NZ. I'll post something about that in a few weeks or so.
You're point is still valid - if it indeed happens, for no other reason than that there weren't any witnesses, then that's a prime example of misconduct on part of the elders.
//Berten:
"Since JW's think of themselves as being *no part* of this "Evil World",
would you like to explain to me *why* the heck they are *so* concerned with their reputation
in this "Evil World"? It's going to be "destroyed" anyway!"It is EVIL.
I am SO looking forward to the DESTRUCTION!!!!
BUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRNNNNNNN!
I HATE this world. Postively hate it.
Harmageddon, TOMORROW PLEASE!
Anyway, what do you care if we care? But i kinda agree :-D because sometimes they brag a bit about their involvement with natural disasters and the like, and about how we get such good press. Personally, I couldn't care less what The World thinks.
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
//Borgfree
Mind-control: to me, that's different territory - and i think you're "paranoid" (not sickly so ;-), but conspiracy theories and that bag).
//plmkrzy
you're right, it was my fault - judging by the number of responses, this discussion is gonna take a lot of directions...
The fear of being shunned: THIS IS IMHO WHERE THE MAIN PROBLEM LIES. It's to easy to become a JW. If you're SCARED of the ELDERS - for crying out loud! Maybe it's easy for me to say, being a big fat mean man, bu these kids in silent lambs and other kids, have shown you don't have to take anything from a misconducting elder. But you don't have to leave the truth to achieve it!
//SYN:
"She did not at any point make YOUR assertion that the Witnesses had a financial reason for protecting and hiding child abusers. Show me one place where this statement was made, please. Thank you"
Quote from myself: "...It indicates JW is a profit-driven institution..." and this assumption has been acknowledged by at least one person it this discussion apart from myself, so it's not just me :-) but you ay disagree all you like, obviously. "Thank You." You're welcome, sarcy.
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
//crawdad
What's your take on JW keeping a database of alleged or self-confessed offenders? :-) doesn't rhyme to me, mate.
//Sirona
"What about a situation where it is a family member who is abusing and the victim can't possibly approach a parent? The victim goes to the elders, often terrified, hoping for help....are you trying to say the elders should just say "oh I'm sorry little 9 year old girl, but I only deal with congregational matters" "
IMHO:
I'm not saying that if all the grown-ups the child trusts - as in friends or relatives - happen to be elders, they can't report (wait: little girl being molested trust other adult males and no-one else? likely...?) But i don't think reporting single allegation to the police should be part of elder's job description. A child would approach someone because of a personal bond, not because "they're an elder". An elder in that situation should act in the capacity of that personal bond, not in the capacity of being an elder. I mean, if the Society decide to do that some day - change the elder policy in this regard - fine with me! I'm not an elder and never will I wish to become one. (But certain people on this board would probably consider me a mind-controlled freak because of it ;-) )
Blaming the policy for the elders is a waste of time and resources. I just don't think that's where the problem lies.
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
//Borgfree we're entering different territory here. Why is that? I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. She's mind-controlled, is she? By whom?
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
On the "list" that JW "refuse" to pass on:
Here's an outtake from the privacy policy that we've agreed to when we register on this site:
"... Forums' site has security measures in place to protect the loss, misuse and alteration of the information under its control. Forums' servers have strict security in place to prevent an intruder from retrieving personal information about its users."
"In this electronic era, when personal information can easily be obtained through various sources, ... appreciates the sensitivity of any private information that you disclose to us. It is our intention to treat your profile information with the highest level of care."
Stored private information is a very sensitive and difficult matter!
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
I just wrote a mammoth post, and it got lost when i forgot to fill in my password! just as well perhaps, it was too long.
//Sirona
thank you ;-)
You think elders should report to the police? i think the victims and their parents should. the elders should only deal with congregational matters. And that is how the WT policy is outlined.
//Dutchie
"If I were them, I would destroy the records, but make a database to be sent off somewhere unknown, just in case."
Just in case of what?
"I was born into this organization and we were always taught not to bring reproach on Jehovah's name. If we went to the police and reported our brother we would be bringing reproach on Jehovah's name. If we took our brother to court we would be bringing reproach on Jehovah's name."
With all due respect - I was also brought up in the truth - there are elders that have mucked up, and parents too. But there are indeed cases where JW's have taken brothers to court, either on financial matters, or some cases of child abuse. (Recent one is Rugby, a couple of years ago in Timaru, NZ).
IMHO, if anything could be improved in JW policy, it would be to encourage brothers/sisters that are accusing someone of molesting, to go to the Police, rather than to leave it at "you may", and to make sure that elder's dont say "don't, because you will bring reproach on Jehovah's name" etc. It may increase the number of false alarms, but surely it would be worth it...?
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36
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke ina lot of people here are laughing.
"englishman" wrote (i think):.
"hopefully this will mean that in britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice.".
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Dacke
A lot of people here are laughing. I think thats disgusting.
Anyway:
"Englishman" wrote (I think):
"Hopefully this will mean that in Britain if an elder harasses you before a case comes to court, the elder can be arrested for perverting the course of justice."
- This was highlighted already in July 89 by the Society. Check out the letter at silentlambs.org. An excellent letter that shows the Societys concern with legal matters, including confidentiality of personal information, and child abuse.
" You're from Britain, aren't you? You have privacy laws, don't you? (WE DO NOT!) "
- Yes we do. Apparently, this member of the governing body of JW in the US know more about your law than you do. And more than the reporter cared to know, since she kept repeating her question like a silly cow, ignoring his answer, trying to make it look like he hadnt answered. Foul tactics that fooled only the foolish.
http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/
- "...one of the richest religious organisations in the world"what did THAT have to do with child abuse? (It indicates JW is a profit-driven institution that has financial reasons for protecting and hiding child abusers, without having to present any tiresome facts. Clever, eh?)
- Theres no excuse if an elder, or anybody else, "advises" the parent of a (suspected) molested child not to go to the police. The letter from the Society read out at meetings recently stated very clearly that if you suspect or know that your child has been molested, you may choose to report the matter to the police, and nobody can tell you that you mustnt. If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hesitate for a MOMENT to go to the Police.
Those poor children!!!!! Child abuse is a VILE practise. And the "brother" who molested his daughter in that basement ----- WHAT A SICKO!!!
It appears from the documentary that the JWs protect and hide child abusers on purpose. If so, why do they maintain the records of the abuse cases? If they had such a policy, surely they would destroy such information? They wouldnt make a database out of it, would they?