Posts by looter

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

Saename, much appreciate what you said which makes sense and all, but religious belief and the scientific module are two ways we as humans make sense of the world around us. In that way they are similar because they can lead humans to their path whether right or wrong. Here's why they are just as similar. Someone who believes in God and feels that there is evidence in creation believes that it is "evidence" based on how they see it.

Someone who has pride and commitment to scientific faith bases their commitment on what they themselves see as validation. The underlying thought here is that people can see evidence differently from the next person because of their unique mind. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong is subjective because it's clear that people do in fact have a distinct outlook on things no matter what they are. What I'm trying to say is that there really is no universally veracity to this. You may believe there is and I may believe that it isn't but both of our beliefs are reflective of our inner perspective.

You remarked that the scientific method requires rejection of claims that don't involve refutable proof. The thing is that a Christian's use of creation as proof can still be proof even though it's not consolable using the scientific method as it's created by man. A believer trusts their decision to believe in God just like the person who is destined with the scientific method. However, the believer just doesn't use the scientific method to come to his conclusion. It's just a simple alternative way. Not really correct or true as this is subjective. That's how I come to the conclusion that they are similar. I never said they were totally similar but they do have complementary based on what I mentioned before.

What I said about "the true essence of who we are as human beings" is just my opinion and you don't have to agree obviously. But I will tell you why I believe this. This goes with what I told Viviane. What truly makes us different from animals? It's our brain and how it exceptionally uses abstract techniques and a special cause to fix issues and communicate. Without this, we'd be either at the same level of animals mentally or inferior.

And no. Faith is not only needed for claims. They can be needed for personal assurance in people among other things, not only just claims.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

"There are animals that use tools and solve problems. Animals certainly can be sensible." But who is usually more sensible and more capable of being sensible? Rational thought is what makes humans special. A human beings main advantage over an animal is their intellectual capacity. That's exactly why I used the word unique. Our ability to be knowledgeable is uniquely superior to animals even though there are always exceptions like the case you said. But we're talking general with that here and it's actually another topic all together.

"It's not difficult at all. Summarize your point, then write as much or as little as you need to support your point(s). Use logic, critical thinking, evidence and reasoning to explain the connections and form your argument." I already did that in my original post. What more can I explain when it's clear a vast number of you guys just don't get my idea? Not much at all. The more I try to explain it under you guys' questions, the more off topic it gets because you still don't understand that main underlying principle I set out and I cannot make you or anyone understand it. That's why it never gets anywhere.

"You literally could not be more wrong if you tried. There is no level of wrongness more than what you achieved with that sentence. It's approach the level of "not even wrong"." Why? Irrationality really is another manner in which we are able to survive and deal with the world. You don't seem to see that irrationality like rationality is a basic form of human cognitive function and that compact rationality is not naturally attainable to every human being even though they could still possess basic human action.

"The scientific method was developed of thousands of years across many cultures as a way to investigate reality without allowing human bias to influence the investigations. The very fact that you are alive and using a computer to post your comments instead of using spirit to do so is proof of that." I'm grateful of that process as everyone should but you act like the scientific method is infallible. The fact that it was developed over several hundred years tells of how much it has changed from the first incarnation. And it will do nothing but continue to change as humans get wiser and wiser. This seems to be the case with replicability of a scarce amount of confirmed science. For you to say I'm alive because of the scientific method shows that you view it in the same light as a believer does to God.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

OrphanCrow, the scientific method's process was created by someone's unique technique which was based on him and the way he saw things. That way works for most people but not for everyone.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

Some knowledge of the scientific method as I've been to school, OrphanCrow. I understand what it means but I'm saying that it was created by someone based on the way they saw life which is the application of belief. Another person can basically hypothesize the exact same concept but it can be immensely different because they might see some things another way.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

"No it isn't. It is a commitment to be led by evidence." That means you're faithful of the evidence. Faith and belief are almost the same thing if not the same thing. Even the evidence that can be verified by anyone can be mistaken. But honestly, that's not the case most of the time but it's always possible. And people have believed incredible things forever without evidence but eventually it turned out to be true. You never know, you could say that now, but there could be refutable evidence that a God does exist some day. But I see that you are not too competent on possibility which is understandable, cofty.

"If they want to claim their belief is rational then let's hear the evidence." Christians believe in God based on the testimony and evidence supplied to them by those who were in a position to receive the evidence when it was available, even though we are not able to verify that evidence empirically today because it is no longer available to us. Whether it's true or not is up to the person to decide. It's just like future scientists should believe in the cosmology described by today’s scientists based on the evidence they acquired when such evidence was available, even though future scientists will not be able to verify that same evidence empirically in their own day.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

"Being rational means that our belief is commensurate with the evidence" Very true. But being rational is still a belief in itself though because you are trusting that something is true but under the view of verification. Not everyone sees this the same way obviously. There is always the case where "evidence" isn't totally believed or even explainable.

"Therefore theism is irrational." That doesn't mean it's irrational just because there is no refutable proof. If God exists then belief in him is rational. If he does not exist, then it isn’t. No one knows whether he is real or not but people can believe he does or he doesn't. To say there is no proof is a belief but a logical one because while there may not be refutable proof some still believe there is proof.

"I still have no idea what your OP is about. Why won't you tell me?" Look, cofty, I've already tried to explain this and I'm not going through that again. If you don't understand, you just don't understand. Don't be giving me headaches, I'm just a boy.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

"I would recommend that you learn the art of speaking for yourself and yourself only. "We both just need" is an inappropriate phrase because you simply don't know my needs. You may need to remember that but I don't." That was said because you don't seem to understand beliefs can be both rational and irrational. It's really at the foundation where someone's head is. Not sure if you refuse this observation or just don't believe in it. "Belief is ALL about the irrational." No. Not at all. Have you ever thought that rationality itself is actually a belief? Of course it uses the laws of action and reason but rationality like irrationality is a state of mind and a natural wiring of someone's brain. People naturally can be either rational or irrational. Rationality implies the standards of one's beliefs with one's reasons to believe.

So basically you're saying that if I believe someone can do good and better then that is using an irrational part of my mind. That's bogus because we can believe in things that are entirely rational and possible but not necessarily will happen. That's labeling so many things everyone may have confidence in all in to one baseless bubble. Please just know that a belief can be rational, irrational, or even both. The whole concept of belief does not require illogicality but rather what position someone's intelligence is, which is either different or slightly different for everyone since we're all unique. Oh, and the scientific method itself uses a belief system. Now I'm not saying it is a belief system but it applies a belief system which is about how certain people see the world, which again is different for everyone.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

What I said was that you didn't understand my answers to some of your questions which led to you asking me something different, cofty. That's how it got off topic. I never refused to explain what topic we had at hand and my point of view. My main topic was already explained in my original post yet you kept thinking I was talking about a physical and creative God which led to a bunch of unrelated stuff that doesn't really pertain to what I was trying to say in my original OP.

Don't keep saying it was my fault when you clearly misunderstood what I was trying to say and continued to ask questions that while similar weren't related to what was said. I just went along and told you my stance on what you were asking. I feel that it was explained the best way possible in the original post. You misinterpreted like most on here and think this is trying to say that God really exists in the sky and that's not what I meant.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

But that's what I'm saying. Someone can have believe in that rational side. Whether a belief is irrational or not depends entirely on what is meant by irrational in this context. A person who believes in God on the basis of considered evidence and reasoning is not irrational. They might be mistaken, but that is true of almost any belief-even those in the sciences. We both just need to remember that some people who believe in God are irrational in their belief and others are rational in their belief.

The same can be said about any belief. People believe scientific claims without adequate justification, yet no one would say that the belief in science is irrational. The belief in God deserves the same treatment. To do otherwise is a senseless and needless insult to those who carefully consider the rather important matter of God and find that reason and evidence point them towards belief.

251

God is Real in Principle

by looter in

jw
friends

now the majority of people nowadays do no go by the hope of old times.

now the reason for this is important and goes beyond mere words.

our culture sees ethics especially national or civil politics as the rules and standards by which we guide ourselves.

looter

I liked what you said. But you remarked, "rationality does not require belief." Neither does being irrational. I know a few people who are as unreasonable as they come but have utterly no type of belief in God, any form of righteousness, or ethics whatsoever. On top of everything, rationality not necessarily needs a belief in God but what my point is, non op, is that it can.

And just because someone doesn't feel it is needed doesn't give them the right the blatantly treat another persons view like it's garbage. Seriously, being different doesn't mean wrong. So many believers and non believers don't understand this ideology even when it's as simple as simple gets.