..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
"Spoken from the Ivory Tower"
I don't understand this statement... Do you know me and my life? Do you think I have never suffered? Thant I have never come across hard times? I am human therefore I suffer. I can't compare my suffering others, I don't know the depths of their pain... but on the same token you shouldn't judge me either.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Viviane that isn't what I said and not what I meant. I think I made my point clearly...
Yes I did use Christian theology to answer this question... but the skeptics also use Christian scriptures and traditions to try and argue the other side of this issue.
while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.
jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.
1. no scriptural concept of original sin.
Cabinfloroda
Thank you for your response... Yes I didn't use the best language to make my point but I thiink you understood me anyways. So the issue with the Septuagint has as much to do with when it was written as much as it did with what language it was written in?
Yes I have no idea what words the historical person of Jesus might have used... however the literary character of Jesus does quote them. An interesting factoid.... I heard it explained that Matthew was a scribe. That being his job he knew short hand and was accustom to taking notes. Many scholars now believe that the book of Matthew might actually contain exact word for word quotes of Jesus.
while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.
jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.
1. no scriptural concept of original sin.
so the other day i was walking through the huge local regional outlet shopping mall.
i see this sign "how do deal with anxiety" didn't take very long at all to confirm it was a jw booth.. that sign bothered me.
do jw actually think they have something to say about anxiety?
dubstepped....
I am probably ADD as well! However you will notice I have a thing for succinctness... I feel if I can't explain myself in a few sentences... I feel I don't really understand the topic! Look at my OP how much I say in just a short bit :)
I think that probably the vast majority of people with ADD have issues with anxiety. Fortunately for me... I don't get too involved in negative self thinking, so I get more physical symptoms than psychological.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
To answer the question from a Christian perspective.... "Why does God allow suffering"
There must be some inherent value to suffering that we can't see or understand from our current perspective. Proof of this (from the Christian world view) is that God himself through his son choose to suffer. If God chooses to suffer there must be some degree of value to it.
If God during his mortal existence choose to suffer... who are we to think we can avoid suffering?
God is not asking anything of us he didn't already choose for himself.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
"If there is a creator god, as christian theism asserts, then she designed a world where the quantity and quality of pain and suffering experienced by her creation was not only low in her list of priorities, it wasn't even on the list."
I am sorry I just think that statement is just as absurd as many say theistic arguments are. I guess if we hold different fundamental viewpoints... we will always be like ships passing in the night. I think this is an unwindable argument for both sides. It is fun to stretch our minds for a bit though.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Let me see if I understand... the problem isn't that there is suffering. It is that there is too much suffering. Do I understand you?
If so, how do we decide what level of suffering is appropriate and what level isn't?
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
