Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Viviane

  So to accept that brains create consciousness is in fact a form of animism.

  Your conclusion is not supported by your premise or anything else you wrote. You're simply trying to re-define terms to say that "not A = A because thinking is hard".
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  43

  Coping with becoming an atheist?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its been a very eye opening experience for me to find out that the god of the bible is as real as thor or ra.

  i still believe a higher power created life but can see now how it doesn't really care about us.

  so with this in mind realizing one has only 70-80 years to live and that may be just it, is very stunning..

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  Viviane

  So what you’re telling me Viviane is that a conclusion here is not truth but a tool

  That's not at all what I wrote.

  That’s fine with me as long as a conclusion isn’t turned into truth, because an even better theory may come along in the future which is even more accurate.

  Of course a better theory is the the whole point of doing science. Science doesn't find the "truth", whatever that is. It finds the highest quality of information possible and new questions and ways to improve the quality of information.

  Of course that won’t be `the truth` either but just a better refined tool which itself will become out-dated.

  Yep. You got it. Better information, better tools, better questions.

  Theists have tools as well but for different jobs.

  "Making stuff up" is only a useful tool when someone can't admit they don't know the answer and have no way to find out.
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  43

  Coping with becoming an atheist?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its been a very eye opening experience for me to find out that the god of the bible is as real as thor or ra.

  i still believe a higher power created life but can see now how it doesn't really care about us.

  so with this in mind realizing one has only 70-80 years to live and that may be just it, is very stunning..

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  Viviane

  To except any conclusion as the truth is a belief! Newton’s conclusions were true, however Einstein’s conclusions were truer I.e. more accurate. Which one has “the” truth is a matter of belief, despite the fact that whatever choice is made is a conclusion also.

  You probably could not have picked a worse example. Newton's laws of motion did not accurately predict the motion of Mercury, everyone knew it mostly worked but every now and then didn't. It required a radical shift in thinking to get to a better model. It's not a matter of which someone "believes" in, it's the right tool for the job.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  It can be anything you like. The question is "what is spirit made of". I was specifically thinking of angels, God, Satan, the holy ghost, demons, etc., but it's restricted to just that.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  are there not life-forms on earth er in the deep sea that do not rely on the oxigen cycle for ife's function, energy use, reproduction, growth?

  Yes, there are. See http://phys.org/news189836027.html

  sorry if I did not make my point clear,but when I refer to breathing I dont mean that the act of breathing is the spirit but is used in terms of taking breath (air oxygen)which is the bodies way of staying alive by using the force of the air in our lungs.

  And one more, galaxie. You don't mean breathing but rather, the act of taking breaths? It's a distinction without a difference. How at all is it different?
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  Viv ...I said the act of breathing is NOT SPIRIT you misread.

  To be fair, you've said all of the following:

  In this scenario spirit is a descriptive word which can be used in place of;..attitude as in she has a bad attitude you could say she has a bad spirit.or I'm at a low ebb, could be I'm not in very good spirit. Or he is a very spirited person meaning he is very motivated.

  That force is not supernatural but is the air we breathe

  It is ONLY because of oxygen any of us can have any so called spirit (remembering before there was ever such a word descriptive or otherwise there was the air we breathe )

  That is the spirit of life which then in turn is fundamental to our continuing our development until finally our last breath goes out and as some would say his/her spirit is finally gone, in other words no more. breath no more spirit for that individual.

  Therefore our human spirit in all its guises is a combination of the brains formulation of our desires and goals for whatever purpose and the way we bring that to fruition.

  Every breath you take allows you to continue in a spirited way ie as all human beings

  You've called spirit composite air, oxygen, attitude, breath, taking breaths and the brain. Could you just, in one sentence, clearly state exactly what you are saying spirit is? I apologize if I misunderstand, but you've called it so many thing it's hard to know exactly what you mean.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  when I refer to breathing I dont mean that the act of breathing is the spirit but is used in terms of taking breath (air oxygen)which is the bodies way of staying alive by using the force of the air in our lungs.

  So it's not breathing, it's the act of taking breaths? That's breathing. You are saying is nothing breathing, it's taking in breath, which is breathing.

  We are no closer to an answer.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  How do you measure "you"?

  What do you mean by "you"? I don't want to misunderstand.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  Any opinions on "spirit;...force giving life to a body" as per dictionary.

  I don't see it as supernatural.

  It's a metaphor. We've already covered that as an explanation. We are no closer to an answer.
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  609

  What is spirit, exactly?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've always wondered that.

  recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

  cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

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  Viviane

  Not exactly viv,..Breathing is only facilitated by force of life oxygen no force no breathing. it is all physical spirit oxygen force of life

  You keep contradicting yourself. It was breathing, now oxygen. You keep changing. Either way it's just a metaphor. Nothing has been explained.