Posts by Viviane

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Absolutely nothing I posted is preaching, I'm posting a logical argument and being flamed and insulted in return. Nor was I being arrogant.

You're not being flamed for being logical as you've yet to do that. You've been arrogant and preaching.

You initiated a thread asking a question you know full well is controversial, has far too many educated people on either side both claiming they have the answeres and you think the common people who come here are going to be able to just eliminate all the doubt and give aboslute proof of prophetic specificity and authenticity when in fact if that were possible everyone in the world would be christian, so i say again there is no point to your topic.

If you can't stay on topic and back up your claims regarding prophecy, you are free to leave.

You've asked a question whcih you already know the answer to either for your own self gratification or some other purpose - but not an soley for a discussion. unless of course your an idiot and did expect someone to be able to do what you ask - but i doubt it very much.

Such arrogance! I do find it quite amusing that you, attempting to insult me, claim that only an idiot would expect someone to be able to show a valid prophecy in the Bible. You did get one thing in doubting that I am idiot, however.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

You need to think to understand. Jesus went on to say, not a stone upon a stone will be left (Matt. 24:2). That also came true.

Are you suggesting I am not thinking? Jesus said nothing specific and simply described what HAD happened already under similiar circumstances to his own time. He never said who, when or why it would happen. Nothing he said required foreknowledge. He, among many others, were saying destruction was coming.

But, sad to say, all these arguments are in vain. Gleason L. Archer, a conservative scholar, summed it up quite well when he said: “The committed antisupernaturalist, who can only explain the successful predictions of Daniel as prophecies after the fulfillment…. is not likely to be swayed by any amount of objective evidence whatever.”

Provide some objective evidence. Gleason couldn't.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Viviane

In case you haven't figured it our, the love Jesus spoke about ( since it keeps getting referred to) is self-sacrifice.

250,000 people didn't self-sacrifice.

As for the arugment for compassion being demolished because SOME people are not compassionate in the face of suffering, well...I don't really view that as an argument at all.

Your argument was that suffering can increase compassion. If it can also decrease it, in what way is point NOT a valid argument? What did they teach you in school?

That is like saying that because some people are that are loved are not loving means that loving people doesn't lead to love.

Of course not, and that's not analagous to the argument being made.

Connect the dots between "God is love" and his creation and laws and foreknowledge that it would happen causing the deaths of 250000 people. How is that love?

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Sir82, while accurate, off topic :)

The reason for being the OT police is that I've seen these conversations completely devolve into arguments and the original topic get buried under endless arguments. Just like my "What is spirit" thread (and as I learned from Cofty's giant thread), staying on topic prevents a lot of noise and distraction from the discussion.

So, does anyone know of a specific Bilblical prophecy that required special knowledge that came true exactly as foretold?

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Moses joe: you would be out raping and pillaging if the bible was not true? Interesting..

Bohm, off topic :) (although it is incredibly ironic that without the Bible, there would be no ISIS)

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

It's absolutely not off topic here at all, there's literally no other reason to be discussing otherwise.

No now you presume to know my mind, what my reasons are AND to preach to me? My, such arrogance wrapped in ignorance.

It's off topic.

You're focused on this tiny subject within a whole and missing the entire point.

I kept the topic narrow to avoid arrongant preachers.

Trying to discredit the prophecies serves no other purpose than to discredit the bible, and therefore god, without which there is literally no point to life other than to live and to die.

I am not discrediting anything. I asked specifically for prophecies that came true. You don't get to be arrogance, preachy, an utterly wrong know-it-all and then blame me when you can't stand and deliver. Please take your preaching somewhere else.

You take away the purpose of life and all we are are animals with no hope. That is the real discussion happening here.

That's not at all the discussion. Take your preaching somewhere else. If you know of any specific Biblical prophecies that required special knowledge and came true, please share. That's the discussion.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

City under discussion: Jerusalem (and its temple). Time period: After seventy weeks of years. Destroyer: Titus and his Roman legions. That's quite specific.

It didn't say Rome, it gave a "prophetic number" that doesn't match historical timelines, the Messiah did not get cut off with nothing, the end wasn't by flood, there wasn't a war until the end, etc.

What part of this is vague?

Nothing. It's just a later addition written after the fact of the events.

The reality is it's all speculation and can therefore be wrong, none of it is certain - and none of it has to be because that was never the primary purpose or point of the Bible.

It's not all speculation. The "point" of the Bible is something you are free to start a thread on, it's off topic here.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Try this one: When was the book of Daniel written? Most modern scholars prefer ca. 165 BCE or earlier. A few Daniel MSS were found amongst the DSS dated 200 BCE – 68 CE.

It fails the test of specificity. It has no names, dates or specific events described. The reading you suggest is the reader inserting events into the text rather than the text describing those events.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Many of the "prophecies" Jesus "fullfilled" were pretty easy to accomplish, like riding a donkey, your mom simply claiming to be a virgin (did anyone physically check?) and other ones.

There is no physical test that can reliably test for virginity.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

The prophecy of Cyrus has been verified as having been written long before his birth as well.

Citation required.

The prophecies about Jesus were all fullfilled by his own chosen actions, true. But the sheer number of them make it improbable that he'd be able to do it, let alone the fact that free will was always a variable - what if they actually acceptd Jesus and didn't put him to death?

What specific prophecy that mentions Jesus by name are you referring to?

The flood is a questionable one I suppose, but when you factor in that every culture in humanity has a legend about a global flood it makes it far less improbable. Why would such a story span across cultures that were even separated by the oceans?

That's not the point, but a decent guess would be because early civilizations had to live very close to water. They all also had gods that weren't Jehovah and Jesus. The evidence, in any event, says no global flood.

The fall of Jerusalem by Rome was foretold, and only those who listened to Christ's direction to, "Flee to the mountains" survived.

Where specifically, was the fall of Rome foretold, with specific details?

Finally, just as a general point of support for the authenticity of Jesus. Josephus was alive, and saw him in action.

Specifically where did Josephus say he "say him in action"?

Further, Daniel had his vision in which he saw the beasts which the angel then identified for him as certain world powers by name - this all came true, even down to the fine details of Alexander dying early and his kingdom being split in four.

This didn't exist in earlier versions of text (written in a different language and style by an unknown author, BTW). Not a prophecy but a clear later addition.