Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I mean ethnically Jewish, not religiously.

  In that case it's very ethically diverse.

  The reason that I mention the whole God bit is that if you're trying to determine if prophecy has been fulfilled, there is an undercurrent of "if it has been fulfilled, maybe God does exist."

  Maybe it all fits exactly into Ba'al's plan. Who knows! Which God? Why that God? That's why this is a historical and not theological debate. I predict my plane will land. If it does, can I make claims of being God?

  As for that last bit, if you said, "The dispersed Syrians will come back when things are stable again," it doesn't necessarily mean all of them. The followup question would generally be, "All of them?"

  "The" means "the", not "some of". If that's not what you meant, then you should have the foresight to phrase it accurately. Another argument against God.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  If God does exist, the UN could have been who he used to re-establish Israel.

  Could be, but now you have to prove that God exists. Theological argument, not a historical one.

  Even if Christians and Muslims live there, it's still a nation that's "for" Jews. Sorry for the poor phrasing, but you know what I mean.

  I don't, actually. Ethnically or religiously? What about Jews for Jesus or Jews by heritage but are atheist?

  If God exists, surely he will stop the earth from ultimately being destroyed by the sun.

  That's easily provable either way in about 5 billion years.

  The verse doesn't say all of the dispersed will be there.

  If you tell me to pay "the" bill or to bring "the" cake, and I only pay half of the bill or bring half of a cake, I've not done what you asked. It's simple, it wasn't fulfilled. Saying "the" means someting very specific that hasn't happened. Prophecy failed.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  In Jeremiah 30... The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord : “Thus says the Lord , the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord , when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord , and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.”

  The UN did that, not Jehovah. They don't have all the land they had. Also, it's a secular nation with many Muslims and Christians living there.

  In Amos 9... I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

  Well, clearly that one can't be true, one day the sun will expand and turn everything on it to a crisp, so the "never" on that one fails.

  In Isaiah 11... He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

  Not all of the dispersed are there. Also, the UN re-established the nation of Israel, not Jehovah.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I don't think it's even my criteria, jgnat. Those criteria, to me, simply seem a reasonable standard by which we could determine whether or not something was foretold.

  Simply predicting that something reasonable would happen isn't agood standard. For instance, I am posting this from an airplane. It's not a prophecy to predict that at some point this plane will be back on the ground.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  What specifically was in the prophecy and what specifically happened?
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  A prophet is one who speak for God so a prophesy need not be about predicting the future.

  Do you have an example of someone confirmed by God to be a prophet making a prophesy? That will basically turn into a theological argument with no one able to prove their specific "God" so is really just an argument about whether God exists.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Viv, after all we've been through, you're like a stuck record, specific names, dates and events. And I repeat, it would be impossible to get first hand knowledge of these things unless you have a time machine.

  Yet we do know things about history, specific names, dates, events, etc., just none of of Biblical prophecy. It's clearly not impossible to know what happened in the past.

  And the Council of Jamnia was your straw man (Phizzy also assisted there). Did you not read the quote from Prof. Kahle's book? You're right, it's not important, but you made an issue out of it.

  A straw man? You brought it up, so you made a straw man argument against what? Ifit's not important, why did you bring it up? Why, if you brought it up, would have an issue with someone commenting on it?

  But you were so sure of yourself, I thought you had proof, but actually you've only got the opinion of the person that wrote the Wikipedia article. What an anticlimax!

  I did provide proof. Reality is often not as exciting as fantasy. The guy made up the council, no proof has ever been found in the 143 years since he made it up.

  Since we clearly can know what happened in the past with specific names, dates and events recorded with no time machine needed, can anyone provide an example of a Biblical prophecy coming true exactly as foretold, having predicted specific names, dates and events?
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Are you not following the thread?

  Of course I am. It's just that's I've said so many things, I wasn't sure which one confused you. Much like Biblical prophecy, you weren't specific and your reqest could have fit any number of posts.

  You are so sure of yourself, "an outright fabrication," a sweeping statement indeed, for which I need proof.

  I am sure of myself. Knowing the subject matter will do that to a person.

  Here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jamnia

  We aren't debating whether or not certain councils happened, so don't try to detail the conversation with debate regarding this, please. It's a hypothesis based on scant evidence talking about something different than the hypothesis.

  The debate is whether or not there is a Biblical prophecy that came true with specific names, dates and events described with exact fulfillment.
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  To which statement do you refer?
• 
  250

  Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

  i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

  i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Right, let's stick to the facts. Outright fabrication you say? Why am I waiting for the facts?

  You aren't waiting for facts. I never said anything about waiting for facts.

  Can you show me a single, specific prophecy detailing names, dates and events that came true EXACTLY as foretold?