Posts by Viviane

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Support your view.

Cofty, I got this...

Support is here.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/users/11814/Fisherman/posted

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

LOL Obviously, not. What do you think? I did not say count. I said measured. I meant count.

Which kind of engineer's scale counts money rather than measures it? I only ask because so far your story is not adding up and, rather than assume you are making it up, I want you to have the opportunity to correct it.

You've already had multiple opportunities, it needs to make sense now or it looks like you are making up a whole lot of things.

My story was meant to illustrate the difference between knowing with certainty and believing something.

Exactly. So far everyone knows your story is completely not making sense and no one believes it. You need to fix that.

When I used the terms, engineer's scale, instrument, "a reading" , ruler, measurement and multiple measurements in my story, I was alluding to scientific fact in connection with something that I know with certainty versus something that I only believe in.

So...are you making this up or not? If so, it's a horrible story that illustrates you don't know anything about money, counting, measuring or science. If not... well, it shows the same thing.

I was also fishing for anyone who has ever written a lab report above the grade 12, who I thought would "almost immediately" recognize these terms and could understand what I meant.

So far it's not clear that you know what you mean.

I was also fishing for anyone that ever took the LSAT, who I thought would be able to decipher my very simple story. All I did was to express count in terms of measuring.

I've taken the LSAT and scored above 98%. I still wouldn't use and engineer's scale (whatever that is) to count money, no more than I would use a ruler to weigh a melon. Your story is sounding more and more like you made something up and are trying to make it sound clever, but are only succeeding in proving you don't nor did have any idea what you are on about.

Commentaries, ridicule, remarks,. beliefs do not make my money grow if you know what I mean.

No, no one does. Use English and complete sentences and then we might.

Can anyone show from the Bible why a compassionate God would cause pain and suffering to any living creature prior to sin? That was the dialogue I was having with Caece, not "perhaps"

No, no one can. Hence, you worship a bloodthirsty death God who, oh ho ho ho, also happens to enjoy the pensis of baby boys and raping virgins.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

No, it doesn't. I does not change anything that I have measured to be known with certainty.

Sorry, apologies, but you clearly mean "really believe" instead of know. After all, you think an "engineer's scale" (whatever that is) is used to count money. You've given us only less reason to think you "know" things.

It does not invalidate the reason the Bible gives for pain and suffering after sin.

It means the reason is a lie since it existed prior to the reason. Your blood god has demanded death prior to the supposed reason. He is a liar and you give him fealty. For shame.

You can refer to those reasons as excuses based on your rule of good and bad but "you are not running the USA."

As a resident of the USA, I can proudly say that neither are you. Also, we are becoming far less religious and more secular over time, resulting in improved freedoms, better education, more civil rights and less ignorance. I hope you join that group.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Maybe. But there is no way to understand what she wrote.

Cofty got it. Maybe there was no way for you to understand it?

First cofty,my post was a response to DOT, who broadly seemed to. It was not directed at V.

If you want to write something to a specific person without the possibility of others reading it and commenting, use a PM.

Anyone that took the time to read my post about counting my money 3 times (measured it with an engineer's scale) should understand, I hope, that that is how one knows something with certainty versus believing something.

You clearly have no idea how to count money, certainly.

The (fact?) that pain and suffering existed before sin does not change anything that I know.

What, specifically, do you know that hasn't changed?

Facts do change beliefs as I demonstrated in my story about the bank teller

That story only demonstrated that you had faith in someone and didn't know how to count money.

That is what was implied in "my answer is know."

Works you how English know do?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

I think that was the implied question.

You, wonderful man, win a chicken dinner.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Did, running before the fall of man, If it is a fact that pain and suffering existed, make my money grow? My answer is know

Do English you work how know?

102

A couple questions for atheists on Suffering

by little_Socrates in

who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.

do you find any value in suffering?.

do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?

Viviane

Cofty use platitude in exactly the correct manner.

26

Are the USA and Russia the key actors in end time prophecy?

by scotoma in

jw
friends

what's the problem with prophecy?prophecy primarily requires a pattern recognition or insightful strategy not an analytical strategy.

prophecy rarely gives names whether of empires or their rulers.

even the name of the messiah - yeshua -wasn't foretold.

Viviane

What is your basis for reasoning on this?

The 100% failure rate of everyone attempting to interpret Bible prophecies.

It's one of the rules for the prophecy game. If you want to play the game you have to accept the rules.

Fantastic! Please show me where these rules are, that they are work and aren't simply a made up load of bunk designed to excuse failed speculation and prediction.

I could list more versions but they all seem to indicate that understanding will emerge from an increase of knowledge

Actually, none of them say that. This is a case of layering on things that aren't in the text, a typical prophecy trick. They say knowledge will grow, you are adding on the understanding part yourself. It's not actually part of the text in any way.

So, we have a 100% failure rate, some vague mention of "rules" that no one has seen, aren't published and give a convenient out whenever a predictor is wrong and a fabrication at worst, misunderstanding a best, of what the Bible actually says.

So, why should anyone, given this, listen to ANY end time prophecy?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

You don't know and it is relevant.

OK, explain how crappy and unreliable ways of measuring things by people carrying around "engineering scales" in their pockets is relevant to you misunderstanding science, religion, logic and critical thinking, please.

Oh, wait, it's examples of using the wrong tool for the job, much like using religion as a moral guide. Now it makes sense.

1 I have done something

Name one.

2 I am not ignoring arguments and I am able to refute.

One example would be lovely.

3 Yes, It could mean that I am actually using logic.

It could, but it doesn't.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

He takes out his ruler, I saw him measure it and he tells me that it was not the correct size. I take out my engineering scale, I measured it once, twice, three times, and it was short.

I know this story is completely irrelevant and now how money is ever counted.

Anyway, you've done nothing to prove you worship anything but a bloodthirsty death god, despite your protests. Also, you clearly are ignoring arguments you don't like or can't refute. Simply using the word logic doesn't mean you are actually using logic.