who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
viv, little-socrates is asking atheists this question and I am replying as an athiest
So you think there is value in children getting raped. That's disgusting. I can see clearly now why you are trying very hard to not admit such an immoral and dehumanizing idea. It's utterly repellent to anyone who is not a horrible example of a human.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
Since you introduced the LUCA hypothesis that is cumbersome in its self, then you would have to go beyond your understanding to view all relevancy to it. The miller experiment is one, however just like everything scientific, it can be disproved by your own science, as in this case.
English, how does it work?
i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .
they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.
It all is about faith. If one does not believe or have faith, then whatever one writes about the bible makes no sense to that person.
Actually, it's precisely when faith is invoked that all sense goes out the window.
i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .
they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.
I could be wrong it that's it seems to me.
You are.
We're living in 2015 not in the dark ages. the inquisitions have nothing to do with Christians in 2015.
Well, yes, it does. Without the death and blood and slavery and rape and genocide, you don't get Christianity as it exists today. That suffering it part of and core to the Christian belief system.
who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
viv - any rape is a terrible crime - child rape is the worst form of exploitation. On the other hand a child who has been raped is not worthless and used up although they may feel that way are they?
You said there is value in suffering. I am asking you if there is value in child rape. Why are you refusing to answer whether or not rape, a form or sufering, has value?
I am saying the opposite which to never suffer exploitation quietly.
That's not the opposite because you've not answered the question yet.
You said suffering has value. Does child rape, which if suffering, have value? If so, does more suffering mean more value?
You're going out of your way to answer questions no one is asking. Why can't you answer the questions you are asked?
who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
viv - please see my previous post, copied and pasted here for you as what you are describing is suffering that is made by human exploitation then dismissed
Yeah, that post was all over the place and didn't answer anything.
A simple yes or no, please. Is there value is child rape?
As a follow up question, if there is value is suffering, then please explain why more suffering doesn't equal more value. In other words, if suffering has value, then it follows that more suffering should mean more value, so why shouldn't there be maximum suffering all of the time?
who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
I am saying that there is value in suffering in that it is those who suffer and those who empathize with them who fight hardest for change.
Wait, so let's use an example here. You're saying that there is value in, say, child sex trafficking because it could stop some child sex trafficking later? You're saying that rape is OK because people might try harder to stop future rape?
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
????
!!!!
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Who are we to disagree?
Just because we don't agree, and it doesn't make sense to us (and maybe not even to them), it is their choice.
Life is much better spent with a smile on our face and with a happy heart rather than being in turmoil over the choices of others. If they want to live a different lifestyle, they'll decide to do it when they are ready...just like we did.
So you're cool with letting children die because of religion? You're cool with Mormon cults that do child marriage? You're cool with beheadings that fundamentalist Muslims believe it is their holy duty to perform?
After all, it's not hurting you, right?
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
This is a nice way of saying they are stupid. Even so, "an astoundingly poor use of those skills" may be their choice and not a mental ailment. I argue that it is their choice.
My words don't belong to you and you don't get to pretend they mean something so you can falsely change them to make whatever point you are attempting.
When you decide to make a point without being dishonest about what I said, then you are welcome to discuss this again.
