Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  2 hours ago

  Let's take another example. If the government reinstates the draft, should conscientious objector status based on religious belief be denied?

  
  

  Of course not. They are free to do other things,
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Religious freedom goes both ways, Christians have rights too. Most Christian shops ( and other religions who oppose gay marriage ) have a FISH on the cards or door.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  On the other hand, I do not believe the government should be ordering people to do things they don't want to do.

  The government does that all the time. Speed limits, taxes, school, building permits, work safety, etc., and we are fine with it.

  No one forces anyone to open a business. The government should simply be saying "If you CHOOSE to open a business, then the rules are 'no discrimination'".

  Ask yourself a question: if you're planning a wedding do you want to put it in the hands of people who are doing it only because the state is threatening them?

  Sorry, they don't get tax breaks AND the right to discriminate. Pick one.
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  9

  Regional Conventions 2015 - theme

  by Elisa1966 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i came across this website: http://www.ministryideaz.com/2014-jw-regional-convention-notebook-p/cu15dcgr.htm .

  there it reads: note taker for 2015-2016 "imitate jesus!

  " regional convention of jehovah's witnesses.

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  Viviane

  A sample of some of the parts...

  Theme Lovingly give to Jehovah - 2 Kings 12:4

  Symposium Do you support Jehovah's Organization?- Deuteronomy 23:19

  With your time? - Hosea 6:6
  

  With with your secular labors? - Phillipians 4:18
  

  As a congregation? - Deuteronomy 15:7

  Experience Humble Obedience Allowed Me to Give More -1 Samuel 2:7, Proverbs 3:9

  Keynote Address Throw Your Burdens Upon Jehovah and Store Up Treasure in Heaven - Matthew 6:21, Malachi 3:10
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  15

  One day assembly

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at a recent one day assembly i walked away with the thought that the wtbts sure does not like witnesses who have the opportunity to make a good living.

  there were, in one day, three experiences of witnesses who turned down "6 figure salaries" because there would be some traveling involved and some meetings would be missed as well as missing family worship night.

  i thought it strange that the exact phrase was used of "6 figure salary".

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  Viviane

  It's all a lie. There is no glut of Witnesses turning down six figure salaries to pioneer.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  You do realize that the junior Senator from Illinois, Barack Obama, voted yea on the Federal law?

  Yes. I do. why do you ask?

  How could a Constitutional scholar vote for such a law? How could soi disant 'stupid people' elect a man for the highest office in the nation who would support such a law?

  Because of several reasons. I assume you understand those reasons, so I won't patronize you by pretending you don't. However, none of those reasons means this current law that is based in ignorance of religion, fear and intolerance is right in any way.
  
  

  This is the background to why states began enacting their own RFRAs. Again, State's interest is the question, and the free market will provide the answer, not lawsuits.

  Yes, I am aware of that. There is, as far as I am aware, no religious ban on making cakes for, arranging flowers for, selling a car to or fixing a dishwasher for a gay person. The government has a compelling interest in promoting the economy and business and this hampers it. This law, specifically designed to allow one group to discriminates against another group because they live in fear of sexuality does none, not one, of this things it is claimed to be for.

  As usual, Christians get it exactly backwards.
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  43

  Jesus Saves From What? March 2015 Watchtower Article

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .

  they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.

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  Viviane

  This thread is mostly about what Jesus saves us from, contrasting a WT view with an historical Christian view.

  Jesus is saving us from his own threat to torture-murder us all unless we love him.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  The misguided outrage over Indiana's RFRA is out of hand.

  Correct. It needs to be more focused, like a laser that can surgically cut the stupid out people that pass useless and bad laws like this.
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  102

  A couple questions for atheists on Suffering

  by little_Socrates in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.

  do you find any value in suffering?.

  do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?

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  Viviane

  viv, atheists who only want to see suffering in moral terms have had their say

  First, you are saying this as if I get a "turn" and you get to decide when it's over. That's not reality. You've no ability to determine when anyone has had their "say".

  Suffering does not always require moralizing. Why can't we see suffering in terms of good and and bad.

  That's exactly what we are talking about. You are saying there is value in suffering, some sort of good. Child rape is suffering, therefore you are claiming there is value in child rape, or a child having leukemia or drowning in a tsunami.

  That is a disgusting view.

  Child rape is very bad and victims need to be heard. Perpetrators need to be brought to justice. I have said this all along.

  Yet you claim there is value in it.

  But shifting the terms of this discussion does not mean that I think child rape is good or even neutral but it means that we can ask if anything of value can even come out of something so horrendous. many victims can say yes.

  Oh, no, dear. No. You're attempting to equate and conflate how people choose to react to a bad thing happening with your claim that there is value in the bad thing itself. Those are distinct and separate items.

  You have not backed off of your claim that there is value in suffering. Child rape is suffering, therefore you claim there is value in child rape.

  parents who suffer for their children - ie. up all night with a crying baby

  That's not suffering unless the parents have the same disgusting and morally deranged view of the world that you do and are hurting the baby because they think suffering has value.

  the tsunami has been mentioned. The story of how an entire family survived after clinging to life was truly heroic.

  It's also utterly irrelevant to your view that child rape has value.
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  5

  Marcus Bachmann refused service under newly-enacted Religious Freedom Law

  by Giordano in

  1. social
  2. humour

  this is way to funny!

  http://conservativefrontline.com/marcus-bachmann-refused-service-in-indiana-store-owner-assumed-he-was-gay/.

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  Viviane

  That site is fake news...