Posts by Viviane

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I guess from now on the florist gal will have to supply floral arrangements to the KKK Grand Event whether she wants to do it or not.

Keep guessing.

"White only" restaurants are all over the place in the United States, and so are "black only". They call them "private clubs" in order to get around laws.

Name some of those places.

I don't think the florist gal was imposing her opinion on anyone. She was having an opinion imposed on her, one she apparently did not expect and did not understand as a legal requirement.

Correct.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I'm neither sympathetic nor unsympathetic for this particular business owner. I'm more concerned about the question of personal liberty. If there's a store owner who wants to refuse service to someone then let them do so and let customers decide if they want to do business with such a person.

Said person is free to not open a store. If they do so, they agree to do so not being an asshole.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Okay. I replaced it. I have this:

You did no such thing. Stop pretending.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

2 hours ago

Let's take another example. If the government reinstates the draft, should conscientious objector status based on religious belief be denied?

Of course not. They are free to do other things,

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Religious freedom goes both ways, Christians have rights too. Most Christian shops ( and other religions who oppose gay marriage ) have a FISH on the cards or door.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

On the other hand, I do not believe the government should be ordering people to do things they don't want to do.

The government does that all the time. Speed limits, taxes, school, building permits, work safety, etc., and we are fine with it.

No one forces anyone to open a business. The government should simply be saying "If you CHOOSE to open a business, then the rules are 'no discrimination'".

Ask yourself a question: if you're planning a wedding do you want to put it in the hands of people who are doing it only because the state is threatening them?

Sorry, they don't get tax breaks AND the right to discriminate. Pick one.

9

Regional Conventions 2015 - theme

by Elisa1966 in

i came across this website: http://www.ministryideaz.com/2014-jw-regional-convention-notebook-p/cu15dcgr.htm .

there it reads: note taker for 2015-2016 "imitate jesus!

" regional convention of jehovah's witnesses.

Viviane

A sample of some of the parts...

Theme Lovingly give to Jehovah - 2 Kings 12:4

Symposium Do you support Jehovah's Organization?- Deuteronomy 23:19

With your time? - Hosea 6:6

With with your secular labors? - Phillipians 4:18

As a congregation? - Deuteronomy 15:7

Experience Humble Obedience Allowed Me to Give More -1 Samuel 2:7, Proverbs 3:9

Keynote Address Throw Your Burdens Upon Jehovah and Store Up Treasure in Heaven - Matthew 6:21, Malachi 3:10

15

One day assembly

by Sour Grapes in

jw
friends

at a recent one day assembly i walked away with the thought that the wtbts sure does not like witnesses who have the opportunity to make a good living.

there were, in one day, three experiences of witnesses who turned down "6 figure salaries" because there would be some traveling involved and some meetings would be missed as well as missing family worship night.

i thought it strange that the exact phrase was used of "6 figure salary".

Viviane

It's all a lie. There is no glut of Witnesses turning down six figure salaries to pioneer.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

You do realize that the junior Senator from Illinois, Barack Obama, voted yea on the Federal law?

Yes. I do. why do you ask?

How could a Constitutional scholar vote for such a law? How could soi disant 'stupid people' elect a man for the highest office in the nation who would support such a law?

Because of several reasons. I assume you understand those reasons, so I won't patronize you by pretending you don't. However, none of those reasons means this current law that is based in ignorance of religion, fear and intolerance is right in any way.

This is the background to why states began enacting their own RFRAs. Again, State's interest is the question, and the free market will provide the answer, not lawsuits.

Yes, I am aware of that. There is, as far as I am aware, no religious ban on making cakes for, arranging flowers for, selling a car to or fixing a dishwasher for a gay person. The government has a compelling interest in promoting the economy and business and this hampers it. This law, specifically designed to allow one group to discriminates against another group because they live in fear of sexuality does none, not one, of this things it is claimed to be for.

As usual, Christians get it exactly backwards.

43

Jesus Saves From What? March 2015 Watchtower Article

by Perry in

i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .

they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.

Viviane

This thread is mostly about what Jesus saves us from, contrasting a WT view with an historical Christian view.

Jesus is saving us from his own threat to torture-murder us all unless we love him.