Posts by Viviane

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

For comparison, here is a question with very similar construction qualities

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I'm happy with the question the way it is, and it is answerable as it is. You apparently just do not want to answer it for what it asks. And, no I really don't need you to re-frame the question I want you answer. I've asked the question I want to ask. I've not asked the question you want me to ask.

Oh well. You're free to mistakenly think your question makes sense, that I am avoiding it for whatever reason and to display a complete lack of curiosity on why the question is deficient.

Wrong on all counts, of course, but horse, water, etc.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

And yes I support vehemently gay rights to marry as much as I support religions to keep their backwards antigay morality.

Would you say the same thing if they were discriminating against people because they were African American?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Either you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing, or you do not. You never say.
- Either you hold a position that courts should assert punitive measures to cause the sort of discrimination demonstrated in a Miss White USA pageant to cease, or you do not. You never say.
So, what is your position on a Miss White USA pageant? Is this a fine thing or should courts assert punitive measures to cause such discrimination based on race to cease?

As I said, rephrase it so it makes sense and I am happy to answer. The offer for help is on the table. No one is stopping you from accepting but you.

BTW, some minor points ... if you don't need to keep repeating the question, why did you? Also, why are you presenting a (poorly worded) false dichotomy? Why are you trying to limit any possible response (once you reframe the question so it makes sense) to just the options you are presenting?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I don't care if you think the question asked makes no sense to you or makes perfect sense to you. I've asked a question and asked that you answer it for what it asks at face value. Are you so dense you don't understand that?

I understand it and I HAVE answered you. At face value, your question doesn't make sense.

If you want help constructing a similar question that DOES make sense, I am happy to help. What I won't do is assume I know what you mean to actually ask and answer that. That's just a recipe for disaster and I am sure a person such as yourself has a high appreciation for clarity and has no wish to ask a question that isn't clear what question you are meaning to ask.

If you feel that you are unable to save face and ask for help constructing a clear question in public, feel free to PM me and I won't tell a soul about it.

The question remains. I don't need to keep repeating it. Either answer it or keep avoiding it

It keeps remaining to not make sense.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

The Washington State Attorney General seems to think the state's consumer protection laws protect against discrimination based on, among other things, religion. I would go with his opinion, unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

It's important to read what I asked you and understand it. I'll repost for your convenience... "What, specific law do you think talks about all customers and not people based on protected classes?"

As an added question, the law lists several criteria. Discrimination IS legal, but not in all situations.

The 14th amendment clearly applies to everybody. The choice available to civil servants is to not be civil servants. I also think this applies to any minister who signs marriage certificates. If they sign any, they needs to sign all of them.

Agreed 100%.

I am opposed to discrimination at all levels, for whatever reason.

I am not.

As they say, its easier to catch flies with honey.

Bigotry isn't something you want to catch.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Being a Justice of the peace isn’t like being a heart surgeon. Just like I have the choice who I pick, they should have the choice who they marry. In a free country you have the freedom to be an asshole if you want, right or wrong.

So you think that civil servants should have the right to not follow the law based on personal preferences? The law they have sworn to uphold, I should mention.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

It's the same thing because Washington State law requires companies serving the public to provide identical services to all customers and potential customers that seek to do business with them. You can't discriminate based on what you think of the customer.

What, specific law do you think talks about all customers and not people based on protected classes? What specific law says you can't refuse service for specific reasons that aren't part of any of the protected classes? I should tell you, before I wrote these questions, I looked up the law on the Washington State website and already know.

It seems that some of you are in such a rush to fence in a group you have made it obvious you don't like; that you can't see who else might get scooped up in your net.

No, I am not in any particular rush to drive out racial, bigoted, religious and homophobic negative behavior. Who do you imagine is getting scooped up in my net?

Maybe I should stop expecting you to think about any position but your own.

Or you could try understanding fully before you pretend to know what it is. OTOH, the irony of someone saying that people looking to stop anti-LGBT behavior is only thinking about our own positions. That's pretty funny because it's so, so wrong on every level.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Food for thought: do you want to be required by law to provide whatever you do for a living to a Kingdom Hall?

How is that in any way the same thing?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I asked the question I asked in order to know your position on what I asked about. If I had wanted to know your position about something else I'd have asked a different question. I can't help it if you don't like the question, or if you don't want to answer what is asked. That's your problem. Not mine.

As I said, simply ask a question that makes sense and you'll get answer. It IS your problem that the question doesn't make sense.

Finally, saying a question is stupid or poorly worded does not answer the question asked. It is, rather, no more than a personal assertion, otherwise known as an opinion. Fine. I'm glad you have one, and that you're willing to share it.

In some cases, such as this, fact and opinion are the same.

I don't mind you sharing your personal opinion about the question asked, so long as you answer the question for what is actually asks at face value. Alternately, we always have the option to refuse answering questions. This tells readers something as well.

Mostly that you don't understand why your question doesn't make sense and aren't interested in finding out why.

As I've consistently said, if you want to know, simply ask in a way that makes sense. If you don't know how to do that, please feel free to ask for help.