Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

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• 

  Viviane

  Not present, couldn't be found ... He/she/it ...

  Ah, so not present like a student absent from class, existing, possibly with naughty bits implying a gender, then?
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  So, what do you mean by "absent"? Or he?
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I agree with you. I was playing the devil's advocate here. But fact is, millions of people assign spirit power to objects, animals, other people. To them, that deity is real.

  So what? It's NOT real and I fail to see how that in any way helps your case of absentheism.
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  By the way, who is "we"?

  Everyone, including you.
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  So, well done, good job, thread derailed.

  As we left it last, so far we still don't have clue what absentheism is actually saying (or not) and I suspect we never will.
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I don't know where you got that idea from. Aten was depicted as a solar disc with rays emanating from it. And the sun exists, I see it mostly every day here.

  From reading on the subject.

  Aten was originally a hypostasis of Ra as well. His origin story is that a dead king rose to the heavens and united with the sun.

  Either way, assigning spirit power to a real thing no more makes that thing a god than does painting orange and black stripes on a poodle make it a tiger.
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Again, please read carefully what I wrote. I didn't say you had the trait of an apatheist. I simply said that functional atheist and apatheist are domains of attitude towards life, whereas atheism, skepticism, agnosticism are theoretical stands.

  And I disagree. My attitude comes from action, not attitude. You are 100% incorrect.
• 
  42

  Something a CO once said.

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "there are only three reasons you should miss a meeting.

  fever, fracture or funeral.

  everything else is a sorry excuse.

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• 

  Viviane

  but really, a person should be reasonable and accept other excuses to miss a meeting:

  "That bottle of Malbec isn't gonna drink itself, you know"

  "I needed to take the kids to the pool"

  "Feeling too frisky"

  "Because I have better things to do that sit there and listen to moronic drivel."
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I didn't say you were an apatheist. I only said that functional atheism and apatheism both belong to the domain ofattitudes rather than theoretical positions. If I knew for sure that God existed, for sure I would care.

  And I strongly disagree because apathy implies my attitude is "don't care" which is not true. My actions are defined by my attitude of "do care, have looked all available material and found no evidence that any deity exists". That is wildly different than "don't care".
• 
  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I take 'absent' in the simplest and most rational of its meanings: not present

  OK, that 100% implies existence. If a student is marked "not present" then that student MUST exist.

  It may include "exists, but not there", also "not paying attention/not caring", "existed in the past, now dead", or "non-existent".

  So, if you are saying it could mean any of those things, then you aren't saying anything and that position is already defined.

  That's exactly the problem that absentheism attempts to address: Atheism assumes a certain kind of deity - invisible, all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipresent, entirely good and then debunks the notion that a deity like that may exist. But there are two problems with this, to wit:

  Atheism, is no definition, takes on defining any deity. Absentheism is not taking it on, in facts, it's simply making something unclear even less clear by refusing to say what it means. It could literally mean "god exists but isn't here or doesn't exist or we don't know what god is to even figure it out". That's not addressing any problem, it's simply mashing together several well defined positions.

  • What about deities that are known to have existed and have been worshiped as such - Caesar Augustus, Aten, the Sun-Disc, or the emperor of Ethiopia Haile Selassie I (the Jah/Messiah of the Rastafarian movement)?

  For example, Ceasar is known to have existed as a person. That is a fact. The worship portion, the divinity, was specifically tied to existence of other gods and heaven, being related in some way to those gods. Without them, you get no divinity of Ceasar. His divinity is NOT a fact as there is no evidence of those gods or spirit world.

  Aten was the disc of the sun depicted as a falcon headed man. Unless you show me a falcon headed man, I fail to see the relevance. Ditto for Selassie. Objects that DO exist were co-opted into a belief system of the unprovable and invisible deities. So what?

  • What if a deity that exists leaves no physical footprint in the universe, doesn't communicate or interact directly with humans? What if said entity escapes any known definition that humans so far have come up with? How would we even collect evidence that it exists?

  Then all you can say is that there no evidence for that deity and no way to get any evidence, which is already a well defined position and the functional equivalent of "no deity at all".