Posts by Viviane

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I think much more more about my country that is being forced away from its traditional roots, while the people that promote this are using deceitful tactics. I spoke out about the way the watchtower forced deception on people, and I also speak out how these liberal groups are also using similar tactics.

Ah, so women not being able to own property, religious tests for office and slavery are what we should pine for?

What specific deceitful tactics are you speaking of? Most people seem to be very clear on what is going on. I keep hearing about this gay agenda and tactics and freedom cause Jesus and how much these religious white people think about gay sex, but I can't seem to find what the deceitful tactics are, certainly not ones like the WT uses.

Could you elaborate? Also explain why businesses owned by Christians specifically need protection? You also ignored my question about if it would be OK if the gay couple getting married were celibate. You also didn't address the line of right and wrong and the 1 drop rule.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

The intent of the law was to protect christian oriented businesses from having to participate in a ceremony they want no part of--the problem was, the law as it was written, was just a blanket check for people to discriminate in non-essential things--even people who don't have sincere religious beliefs.

But they aren't participating in a ceremony, they are providing a service that they went into business to provide. If they don't want to do that service, don't open a business offering that service.

And why in the world should should a business owned by Christians get any protections? We've still not answered that fundamental question.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Actually DJS, I have went undercover in several gay agenda oriented organizations, just to see the inner workings, which explains my long time absence from here.

"On the down low" isn't the same as "undercover", BTW.

It seems as if you spend more time thinking about gay men having sex than they do.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Viviane, you ask where to draw the line--I think that was the problem with this law in the first place, it didn't draw the line. It never specified acts vs.people, and it should have had some language in it that prohibited actual discrimination against people vs. ( what they do)

So, what if two gay people get married BUT decide to be celibate? Non-gay people do it, would that be something that it's OK to discriminate against? Being gay isn't "something they do", so I am assuming it's the sex act itself is the problem.

Why is it OK to make a cake for a special night for two gay people but not for a wedding?

It should have specifically mentioned the wedding industry and cake bakers and florists--it also should have stated that people could not be discriminated against in buying gas, getting healthcare, etc etc--the important.

Why? Why would you force a banker to violate their conscience but not a baker? Why do you think the government should be picking winners and losers?

I agree with the intent of the law, but disagree with how it was implemented

What, specifically, do you think the intent was?

-in other words there were no protections for real discrimination, which meant that people who aren't even religious could discriminate--you know the secular ones.

Well, yes, because thankfully you can pass laws based on "because Jesus", so you have to hide the bigotry in terms like "sincerely held belief" which means the bigot Christians get to experience the law of unintended consequences.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Anyway Viviane to answer your question, yes I would probably be mad, however I would still be thankful to live in a country where people aren't compelled to think all alike

Sorry, but, "serving your customers" doesn't mean "think alike". I mean, let's assume you are gay and I run a vegetable stand. Are you saying I should be able to use police, fire and public health protections, accept tax breaks (all things paid for by gay people, BTW) and decide not to sell you and your boyfriend (who I am just imagine as Danny DeVito, for arguments sake) carrots and zucchini because of what I think you might decide to do with them?

Where do you draw the line? Where do you say "this is wrong"? You've already mentioned that basing discrimination on skin color is wrong, but what if someone thinks the old southern "1 drop" rule is what should be applied? Why does your chosen religion (and complete misunderstanding and selective application of that religion) mean you get to skate on providing service that you, as a person who is going to use public service and signed a public contract agreeing to serve the public can decide to break?

Why is the utter hypocrisy of serving fornicators and adulterers and gay people and taking their money fine until if for a specific ceremony not mentioned in the Bible?

But then again, what do I know?

Clearly we're all asking that.

The only time I have been discriminated against for potential gayness, was by a closeted (but self affirming, married, gay colleague), simply because I wasn't potentially gay enough--enough to sleep with him!

Riiiiiiight.....

284

I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

by EdenOne in

it just dawned on me.

the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

Viviane

^^^that ^^^

Ah, so absentheism is still saying nothing. Got it.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Everything you say will come true, because the bible says it will. God said, in the end he would cut the days short, for even the very elect would be deceived.

The Bible says God will end the world because you are potentially gay and might need a gay wedding cake one day?

Wow, that's very specific.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

And yes, much of it is a choice

So, as a potential gay man, how would you feel about being discriminated against due to your potential gayness?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

Actually they were doing them a favor--the fact that they served them graciously was favor enough.

Ah, so if they WERE doing them a favor (which we all they they weren't), they were simply hypocrites where were willing to sacrifice morals for money when it suited them?

Yeah, that doesn't deserve protection and doesn't help your case.

The law doesn't say you have to be nice when dealing with customers.

Correct and utterly irrelevant in every way.

But either way, this couple did what was best for the agenda--they cried "victim" and sued. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

The world never gets better without those wronged doing something about it.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I don't see this as a civil rights issue, more like a moral wrong issue. The only real hate in this situation is what was exhibited by the gay couple demanding this Baker cater a function that totally goes against his conscience.

Being gay isn't a choice, being black isn't a choice. How is it NOT a civil rights issue? How is it not rooted in hate when the basis for the discrimination is a book that says to kill gay people?

Unless, of course, you think being gay IS a choice, which means all you need is to meet the right guy.