Posts by Viviane

56

Question for atheists and nonbelievers

by pressman in

i profess to teach the truth to you all and get you to all to think and believe.

believing in christ through his words and not through evil religious cults, like hoj and jw, can and will save you.

do you all realize that every time you are victorious and receive something of value through your hard work and sweat, it was our holy god who blessed you.

Viviane

I also ask you all to please consider this. why do we humans claim to know everything?

Who, specifically, is claiming that?

even if we claim to know only half of everything, how do we know that holy Yah does not live in the half of what we fail to know?

That's called the "god of the gaps" and is well debunked.

Then again most of the scientists and archaeologist cannot give you one scrap of evidence where life came from.

Actual scientists who study this can. I've no idea why you think an archeologist would have any bearing on the matter. Are you actually aware of what science is?

However the evidence for where life came is found in a book that god made humans right. and they in fact got it right. why? because god was behind it.

So, specifically, tell me the details of how life started.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

I understand the need that rationalists have to jump at anything that resembles theism

Once again... STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW HOW OTHER PEOPLE THINK.

But if reason is but a flag, used merely to win debates and an excuse to be insulting to others, you're a disgrace to your own cause.

And now, having been thoroughly debunked and, indeed, unwittingly having had a hand in your own debunking, you fall back to attempting to insult people.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Either you can't read or won't read, Viviane. Go back and read that it wasn't me that was asking for a definition of "god".

I never said it was. Have you tried actual reading?

That is the sort of thing that should be asked to a theist. It's nonsensical to be insistingly asking to a non-theist like me to define a god. It's stupid and obtuse. For the empth time, I don't know.

Exactly. That's my point. You can't possibly assert anything about evidence or knowledge regarding a thing you can't define.

Why are you still going round in this circle?

You need a definition given by a theist so you can then debunk it.

I see you've started pretending to know what other people think again, despite you saying you wouldn't.

But when a non-theist asks you to logically explain how come your so-called absence of belief in deities that stems from lack of evidence for their existence is in itself different than a belief proper, what I observe is some sort of broken record, headless chicken attitude.

Because you can't define "not having money" as "having money". You're attempting to say "!A = A".

And by the way, that's a GREAT use of weasel words, "so-called". It's used by the WT quite often when they are also about to say something utterly absurd.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Actually, I've a better definition... where <deity> = x, <definition of deity> = x/0.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Huh? That was for you, since you were having so much trouble defining one earlier. What's Cofty got to do with it?

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

But don't you see that such question can also be turned on you?
An atheist says: "I lack belief that god [or: deities] exist". Ok, so define "god". Or define a deity.

Any number of made up things people give time, energy and worship to, such as Jesus or Allah, usually because of a circumstance of the the location of their birth and an inability to use critical thinking, People also tend to get very upset when you don't partake of this shared delusion.

See? Defined.That wasn't hard.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

so what have we got from this thread
Ruby, thanks for putting it in such a succint way.

Clearly neither of you understands each other, anyone else or yourself.

awww shucks! Thanks!!

It's like watching a toddler fall over.

get a room!!!!

Go away.

What is obtuse is insisting in trying to engage a non-theist with a question that should be directed at a theist. You won't get a reply from a non-theist. Why do you insist?

Uh, you started this thread. You realize you are calling yourself obtuse?

As I said, like watching a toddler stumble.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Cofty and Viviane and others with your viewpoint why bother engaging eden one and outlaw? It seems like you give credibility to a subject that doesn't merit it. A duplicate in essence of the last one on absentheism.

Because it may help others to see critical thinking in action that may not have been exposed to it yet. Also, I have had people who were die hard theist tell me that I helped them eventually realize the fallacies in their reasoning.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Viviane, it was you who started this nonsensical polemic of asking me to define god.

No, I asked you a question about a platitude you asserted, namely, that without evidence we lack knowledge. You said this was true of atheists and deities.

As you've demonstrated, your platitude ISN'T true. Until you define what it is you are talking about, you cannot possibly assert that anyone lacks knowledge of it. As it so happens, no one can define any particular deity without contradicting themselves or admitting they've no idea what they are actually talking about, as you've demonstrated by failing to come up with any working definition for even the most simple deity you could imagine to even determine what could possibly be known about it.

Your entire argument is in shambles.

Since you were oblivious to what I wrote, I decided to oblige and make up a god for you

Or, you didn't think your argument through and realize I was leading you to the destruction of your own argument.

Naturally, this isn't what I was asking in my OP. But since you insisted in taking the thread in this direction, so be it.

Far from insisting, I led you with a gentle tug on the reins.

If an atheist has lack of evidence and evidence against, but no affirmative evidence of the inexistence of god ( because logically one can't prove a negative) what can he know about a given deity?

EVERYONE has a lack of evidence about any deity. You seem to have a problem with people rational enough to realize it.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Remember that I'm playing the devil's advocate here. To me, Spanx's believer, there's abundant evidence. Now, I ask of you, atheist, how can you prove me that Spanx, whom you deny to exist, doesn't exist. How can you know for sure? Or do you not believe because you don't have sufficient evidence?

Huh? That's not at all what you were asking in your OP. You've totally changed your question, I suspect because your entire argument has fallen apart.

If you want to get into specifics, then 1)the people making the assertion have to provide the evidence. If they are ignorant of that, well, that's their problem and 2) why would I try to prove a negative to you? Do you realize how illogical that is? and 3) I don't believe anything without a reason to. Neither you nor any other theists has every provided any evidence or other reason to believe in <deity of choice>.

At this point, I'm not sure you even know what you are trying to argue.