Posts by Viviane

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Viviane

It seems that if someone should say the pages in his Bible are black print on white paper a few here might accuse him of being arrogant for actually believing he is capable of seeing the true colors of the ink and the paper

Well that's just utterly ridiculous. Colors have well defined objective values that can be measured.

She would ricochet away from almost everything I said even if I said something small or ordinary like- Honey how about going out to breakfast this Saturday- she would reply- why Saturday, why not Sunday, because you want to go to your useless meeting! It was relentless.

I'm sorry you are having marital troubles, but what does that have to do with this topic?

If I can say one thing that I hope will be something considered worthwhile here it is this: If you have started smoking STOP! Please stop. And thanks for listening.

That's good advice, but what does it have to do with this topic?

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Viviane

Thanks for your opinion, Viviane.
I look forward to you asking people here how they would like to be treated, and you acting accordingly
lol

What part of that do you think is opinion?

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Viviane

I think the Golden Rule doesn't omit this. I would want someone to ask me how I would like to be treated instead of just assuming. This is in line with the Golden rule.

No, it doesn't. However, it does encourage NOT doing this.

Empathy is something easy to feel for someone we care for. Applying that to all fellow humans as a principle even if they are unknown to us personally makes life easier for all. The "golden rule" is just another way of stating that.

Huh? Empathy is understanding how other people feel. The golden rule is taking a dump on how they feel and acting according to how you feel. It is literally the opposite of empathy.

It is generally accepted as positive and you are not naive for thinking so. Just because someone has a different opinion on it doesn't make you naive or the idea less valid. Some can nitpick semantics on just about anything, but that's their deal.

It IS generally accepted as positive unless you actually think about it. Then it's a horrible, selfish idea. Some can nitpick on semantics, but semantics are actually important for understanding things. Some people don't care to understand things, but that's their deal if they choose to remain in the dark.

As mentioned, it's the beginning of empathy and consideration for those beyond your immediate circle of people. It's general politeness and courtesy to others and doesn't need to be more complicated than that

It's the opposite of politeness and empathy.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Viviane

Perhaps (and I hope I am very wrong), but just perhaps some of these people who are acting this way were originally attracted to the Witnesses because they are a group that has not tolerance for ambiguity. These are people who like feeling they are right, in fact they have to believe they are and that others and their opposing views are unenlightened by comparison. It’s like a drug.

Wow. What an uninformed and arrogant thing to say.

I can confirm that yes, you are very wrong. Not only are you wrong, but in your wrongness you have managed to be arrogant, presumptive and pretend to know the mind of others, put your ignorance on display, so to speak.

It's almost like you are exactly the thing you are complaining about. I've seen that quite a bit today, actually.

99

Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

by willmarite in

on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

Viviane

I guess I naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.

Correct.

What about the teaching called the golden rule itself? Is it just garbage?

Yes, it's arrogant and presumptive.

Rather than assume people want the same thing you want, you could always ask them. For instance, just because person A likes for random strangers to stick a finger in his poop chute doesn't mean that he can assume everyone likes that and run around doing it.

Just because person B loves shrimp dinners doesn't mean he can assume every does, they may not like it or be allergic or have religious objections.

Far better to simply ask how people would like to be treated.

62

For God/Truth Seekers Only!

by Nicola.threeangelsmessage in

jw
friends

for the past three years, my husband and i have been watching these sermons by remarkable worldwide speakers.

the biblical truths we have learnt from their presentations, in such a short period of time most definitely tip the scales compared to the truth the jw.org led me to believe i had for over 20 plus years of my life.

thanks to these videos, we have now found the truth and the truth is jesus christ (john 14:6).

Viviane

Seriously , find something better to do with your time. Get a degree, learn how to play guitar, Volunteer at the SPCA.Next time you place a lot of time and effort into an answer, you have to realize this isn’t a NASA message board. The general audience doesn’t care.

Got a degree, know how to play guitar, pick locks, play golf, cook, knit, garden, already volunteer every week at the local no-kill animal shelter and have rescued two dogs and foster others at various times.

What were you whining about again? It's almost like you said something, but then it turned out ... not quite so much.

59

How the human mind processes facts and faith differently

by EdenOne in

i found this very interesting article by t. m. luhrmann in todays edition of the new york times (i've highlighted a few parts i 've found most interesting):.

it seems weird to deny them.. and yet a broad group of scholars is beginning to demonstrate that religious belief and factual belief are indeed different kinds of mental creatures.

people process evidence differently when they think with a factual mind-set rather than with a religious mind-set.

Viviane

If I may, I will use Viviane and Cofty as examples. They can be brutal on threads like this. But that's the point, its on THREADS LIKE THIS!!!

Thank you. In the arena of "is this idea valid" it's utter brutality to the idea to see if it stands up. That says nothing about the person with the idea or the person seeing if it stands up, whether they are nice, naughty, mean, motherly or otherwise.

Some of the people that have been the most brutal to my own ideas have been my best friends because I asked them to be. I mean, if my friends can't tell me my idea sucks because they want to be nice, how do I expect anyone else to respond when I put it out there?

I expect no one here to believe it, but, in actual life, I am one of the most compassionate, easy going, ready to laugh, buy you a drink or cup of coffee people in the world.

Oh, time to evaluate an idea? I wouldn't be an actual friend or good person if I didn't try to destroy it. How else will you figure out where it needs work and shoring up or to be scrapped altogether? Would it make me a better person NOT to challenge ideas? I think not.

62

For God/Truth Seekers Only!

by Nicola.threeangelsmessage in

jw
friends

for the past three years, my husband and i have been watching these sermons by remarkable worldwide speakers.

the biblical truths we have learnt from their presentations, in such a short period of time most definitely tip the scales compared to the truth the jw.org led me to believe i had for over 20 plus years of my life.

thanks to these videos, we have now found the truth and the truth is jesus christ (john 14:6).

Viviane

I have a choice to either watch or turn them off (for good if I have to), as opposed to, “you have to go to the meeting or else Jehovah will be very upset with you” or “I had better keep up my meeting attendance to avoid the Spanish Inquisition from Elders so and so – I've already missed two consecutive meetings, missing the third will surely bring down the guillotine…”

JWs have the same choice with videos. This is NOT a meeting so any comparison is invalid.

If I am being indoctrinated, than I am being indoctrinated by God’s Word.

JWs say the same thing. Why is this different?

The transformation that happened in my life after learning and applying Bible principles is living proof that God’s Word is real - it is living, and has the power to change lives.

JWs say the same thing. How is this different?

44

God & JW can't exist without "evil"

by thedepressedsoul in

i was thinking the other day that so far jw's and god have always needed or relied on "evil" to get items done or taken care of.

almost every bible prophecy and jw teaching would not exist without "evil".. let's take the prophecy of jesus for example, it would not have been fulfilled without evil.

when you think about it, he was a needed evil in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

Viviane

Viviane, I figured there was a shoe coming my way. Your use of condescending insults betrays an inability to simply address what is being discussed in a manner worthy of respect.

As I said, you spoke without knowledge and then assumed violence. That was 100% all you and where your brain went. Attempting to pretend I said it is shamefully dishonest. No one ever said anything about throwing anything until you did and then you attempt to blame me for it? Oh, no, dear. It doesn't work that way.

You brought it up, you own it.

Your gruff manner detracts from your posts and thus your arguments. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot, pun intended.

I am not in the least bit gruff. I just have zero tolerance for people saying ridiculous things and the dishonestly pretending somehow I was the one that said it.

If you want to get off on the right foot, be honest and stick to reality. Act like an adult and don't get offended at the expectation that you will converse in an honest manner. Don't blame me or call me gruff for calling out your ridiculous, made up claims. My arguments are just fine. All you need to do is speak honestly and converse like an adult.

44

God & JW can't exist without "evil"

by thedepressedsoul in

i was thinking the other day that so far jw's and god have always needed or relied on "evil" to get items done or taken care of.

almost every bible prophecy and jw teaching would not exist without "evil".. let's take the prophecy of jesus for example, it would not have been fulfilled without evil.

when you think about it, he was a needed evil in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

Viviane

Double post.... edited to remove, see below.