Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
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  3. 
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  Viviane

  No I am not

  Of course you are, Fisherman. You've not been able to objectively show us there is anything call spirit. Being spiritually blind is the conclusion. You're attempting to skip over the "show it exists" part and simply claim we just can see it. That's assuming the conclusion is true in the premise.

  Simply attempting to say blind people can't see red, therefore Jesus because empirical evidence shows that not only do you need to re-take that physics class, but also learn a bit about blind people and what they can do (you wouldn't imagine), learn about how to construct an argument and use critical thinking.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  The spiritually blind (it is a blindness of the mind) are spiritually deaf too. They do not understand.

  You're assuming the premise in the conclusion. That's a giant error on your part. You cannot explain spirit, spirituality, what it is, how we can objectively determine if it exists, detect it, etc. You've done nothing but claim it exists and then proceed from there. You've given no reason for anyone to think you done anything.

  You have all your work ahead of you.

  Not only did I look at the experiment, but I also observed, understood and concluded.

  That has nothing to do with this. A blind person could also perform that experiment. I've no idea why you brought that up.

  God's Holy Spirit is "empirical" evidence of God

  If you can't show or otherwise demonstrate it to me, then it's not empirical in any way, quotation marks or not. You apparently need to re-take that physics class to learn what empirical evidence is.
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  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  what is a process? (your reply may enable clarification for both sides of this argument)

  It's a word you should look up.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Any significant deviation, any significant genetic mutation in any of its parts corrupts the whole system.

  Well that's just wrong.

  Oh, and define "significant". What does that mean in this context?

  Science did not give me that. Neither did a blind process called evolution nor its mother abiogenesis.

  Actually, evolution did give you that. Science is a process, I've no idea what you expect it to do on it's own.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  In terms of evidence, God's Holy Spirit is what the spiritually blind would see if they were not spiritually blind. Explaining what it is, is like explaining the color red to a person born blind.

  But, you can describe the color red to a blind person and describe real real things that produce the color red. You can also describe it in scientific terms. You can't do any of that with holy spirit. Indeed, all you can do is avoid discussing it in a way that would put you on the spot of having to describe it.

  To someone that sees, no need to look for an explanation.

  That's called willful ignorance.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I was a Witness for a long time. They used every"shame and " this is what you should think" tactic known to man. I am tired.

  You mean like this line, that you wrote? "Look at who dosent [sic] post and not just who does."

  So, you tell someone what to do to learn something and then complain about people talking about how to think. It IS very revealing. It reveals that people who like to complain about things are often very guilty of that thing.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Those atheists are the ones to read and to ask questions of. They dont have a secondary agenda.
  You can find them making intelligent posts in various places.
  Look at who dosent post and not just who does. It is very revealing.

  Indeed it is. It is quite interesting to see someone posting on a thread say intelligent people wouldn't post on it. It's like you didn't think through that comment.

  Since you seem to think people here have an agenda, let's figure that out. Who are these people? What is their agenda, specifically? How did you find this out? Did you talk to everyone? If not, how can you make claims about people you don't know and haven't talked to?

  I look forward to your answers, I am sure they will be very revealing.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  If all that atheists can add to the discussion is put downs and ad hominem jabbing insults then it doesn't bode well for defending their ideas.

  No one has made an attack on HMTM. False accusations don't help anyone.

  This forum would be a much more helpful place for folks seeking a way out of the clutches of the WT if instead of ridiculing each other we concentrated on exposing the abuses of confidence and human rights the JW Organization inflicts on people.

  Ridicule of a person is the rarity rather than the norm and the forum already does what you want. It also engages in social topics, discussions of religion in general, critical thinking and science.
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  These type of threads usually disintegrate in to " I know the only correct thinking on this" threads

  That's usually how these sorts start, with a person telling us the Truth Straight From God.

  I think overly simplified, it comes down to the word energy.
  How energy is applied, who applies it and where (or when).

  What kind of energy? Electrical, thermal, gravitational? How can we detect it?
• 
  73

  God's Spirit

  by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is god's spirit?

  .

  i ask this of those who believe in god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  God's spirit is the power that drives every living cell.

  What you've asked is what God's spirit is. What you've told us is what you believe it does. That would be like asking "What is a whiffydaglejam? It is what rolls downhill." Your answer, much like mine, hasn't told us anything. What is it? Well, what is it made of? How does it do the things you claim? How can we know that?

  Also, if that is true, then you are giving god credit for every form of cancer, MRSA and the black death. If god's spirit is what keeps cells alive, then the corollary to that is lack of that spirit is what kills them. Everything that has ever died is now the fault of God in your answer.

  an angel
  * God's dynamic power
  * God's mind
  * God the Father Himself
  * Jesus
  * A mysterious Third Divine Personage
  * A holy attitude

  You've not told us what god is, how a spirit can have a mind (indeed, what is spirit?), what this power is, what angels are, etc. You're simply replacing unexplained terms with other unexplained terms.

  There is an excellent thread on what spirit is (so far, no answer) if you think you can contribute.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/279886/what-spirit-exactly