Posts by Viviane

63

How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda in

while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

Viviane

Append "We do too!" to your thread title for accuracy.

63

How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda in

while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

Viviane

Judaism is exactly as ridiculous as any other religion. No more, no less. The main thing giving modern Judaism an extra point is that they do their thing and live and let live (for the most part, there are some wacky Jewish fundies out there also, showing that any religions has it:s wackos that can interpret it's ambiguous, morally reprehensible and silly texts in a horrible fashion).

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

ow are you a dick if you accept the same fate as you subject others to? It isn't like God says "You suffer while I just sit on my throne".
God got off his throne and suffered with us.

God didn't do that. God sent his son to have an experience for three days and nothing changed.

God didn't watch his child die forever from cancer or a tumor or die from strangulation on it's umbilical cord during childbirth. God didn't watch his family all die from ebola or the plague or be captured, raped and murdered by an invading army.

YouYour God is a dick.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Viviane that isn't what I said and not what I meant. I think I made my point clearly...

"must" isn't a word that makes sense where you used it. I just fixed it so it matches your point.

Yes I did use Christian theology to answer this question... but the skeptics also use Christian scriptures and traditions to try and argue the other side of this issue.

"Try" being the operative word. People, such as I, use scripture to point out that all you can do is try and that you never arrive at actual answers, just more obfuscation (which I eschew) or claiming humans are too stupid to understand it. Well, you can call us stupid if you want and you can think of yourself that way if you want. I, however, just read an article on how we have figured out how to put afterburners on particle accelerators. If we're smart enough to figure that out, I am pretty sure we're smart enough to answer "why is your god such a raging dick". It's because he's a dick, not because we're too stupid to understand why being a dick is really a good thing.

Let's put it this way, if someone treated your child the way your god would treat you, we would put that dick in jail for being a dick. Your god doesn't get a pass on raging dickishness. He's a dick.

63

How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda in

while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

Viviane

What screws up any understanding of any scripture is allowing someone else to tell you what it means instead of using your brain and reading what it says.

31

Bible History

by bitsnbobs in

hi all,i left the org in the late 90s.

not because of beliefs or the 1914/generation fiasco.

just thoughtlessness, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

Viviane

I can't confirm by archaeology the snake story other than to note it is unproven but also undismissible.

You've gotten it exactly backwards. You've zero evidence for it and all the evidence against, so it is not only something that can be dismissed, it also MUST be dismissed.

But yes, first of all, in the context of Bible history, we do first presume the story is true and it remains true until proven otherwise. That's the biblical historical position.

And again you've got it exactly backwards. You start with evidence and see what it supports, not decide what you want to be true and then look for that evidence.

So yes, he's a great archaeologist, and yes, I can see he is very handsome, but as a Bible historian he is as phony as three-dollar bill. That's my personal opinion. You want to criticize my position? You'll lose. But bring it on.

Your position is exactly backwards, shows a distinct lack of understanding and education in logic, critical thinking, the sciences and history. That is a fact. Consider your opinion criticized, eviscerated and lying in the sun with vultures closing in.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

There must be some inherent value to suffering that we can't see or understand from our current perspective.

Instead of "must", what you mean is "the only reason I can think of is that my mind is so limited that..."

31

Bible History

by bitsnbobs in

hi all,i left the org in the late 90s.

not because of beliefs or the 1914/generation fiasco.

just thoughtlessness, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

Viviane

Lorenzo, what specific evidence can you cite showing the Biblical claims regarding Solomon to be true?

You appear to be starting from a position of "true unless proven false", from an apologist position. You've gotten how evidence works exactly backwards. Unless you've provided me a reason to believe in a dirt man and rib lady getting dietary advice from a talking snake, you've got all your work ahead of you.

Also, props to whoever I stole that line from :)

31

Bible History

by bitsnbobs in

hi all,i left the org in the late 90s.

not because of beliefs or the 1914/generation fiasco.

just thoughtlessness, hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

electron is time. In quantum physics
spacetime = light
time = light
bent time = rainbow.
i dont even have to explain, watch particle fever.
They proved it for me.

None of that is correct or makes sense. And either stop whatever drugs you are doing or start taking some.