Posts by Viviane

109

Topics Ive Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION in

this is my first post on here so bear with me.

currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.

i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.

Viviane

Honesty, what is a "morally upright" life?

109

Topics Ive Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION in

this is my first post on here so bear with me.

currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.

i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.

Viviane

I'm basing morality on the bible itself. I know that there are times where I do slip and curse. But it seems nowadays, people use it every sentence as a filler.

OK. Where does the Bible say not to swear? A curse in the Bible is not the same as swearing. Biblical morality allows slaves, rape, murder, multiple wives, killing and burning animal entrails because Jehovah likes the smell and forced abortion. What morality, specifically, do you like from the Bible?

What, specifically about gay sex is wrong? Clearly not all heterosexual sex produces children, so that can't be it.

109

Topics Ive Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION in

this is my first post on here so bear with me.

currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.

i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.

Viviane

I apologize if I was offensive at all in my post towards gays. I was being as tactful as I can be while getting my point across. Anybody else think I was too harsh on my post on gay people?

What, specifically, was your point? Gay sex doesn't produce children is therefore somehow wrong? Most sex doesn't produce children.

You don't swear. OK. Some people do. How is swearing or sex out of your approved relationships moral or not? How are you defining morality?

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

I mean ethnically Jewish, not religiously.

In that case it's very ethically diverse.

The reason that I mention the whole God bit is that if you're trying to determine if prophecy has been fulfilled, there is an undercurrent of "if it has been fulfilled, maybe God does exist."

Maybe it all fits exactly into Ba'al's plan. Who knows! Which God? Why that God? That's why this is a historical and not theological debate. I predict my plane will land. If it does, can I make claims of being God?

As for that last bit, if you said, "The dispersed Syrians will come back when things are stable again," it doesn't necessarily mean all of them. The followup question would generally be, "All of them?"

"The" means "the", not "some of". If that's not what you meant, then you should have the foresight to phrase it accurately. Another argument against God.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

If God does exist, the UN could have been who he used to re-establish Israel.

Could be, but now you have to prove that God exists. Theological argument, not a historical one.

Even if Christians and Muslims live there, it's still a nation that's "for" Jews. Sorry for the poor phrasing, but you know what I mean.

I don't, actually. Ethnically or religiously? What about Jews for Jesus or Jews by heritage but are atheist?

If God exists, surely he will stop the earth from ultimately being destroyed by the sun.

That's easily provable either way in about 5 billion years.

The verse doesn't say all of the dispersed will be there.

If you tell me to pay "the" bill or to bring "the" cake, and I only pay half of the bill or bring half of a cake, I've not done what you asked. It's simple, it wasn't fulfilled. Saying "the" means someting very specific that hasn't happened. Prophecy failed.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

In Jeremiah 30... The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord : “Thus says the Lord , the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord , when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord , and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.”

The UN did that, not Jehovah. They don't have all the land they had. Also, it's a secular nation with many Muslims and Christians living there.

In Amos 9... I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

Well, clearly that one can't be true, one day the sun will expand and turn everything on it to a crisp, so the "never" on that one fails.

In Isaiah 11... He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Not all of the dispersed are there. Also, the UN re-established the nation of Israel, not Jehovah.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

I don't think it's even my criteria, jgnat. Those criteria, to me, simply seem a reasonable standard by which we could determine whether or not something was foretold.

Simply predicting that something reasonable would happen isn't agood standard. For instance, I am posting this from an airplane. It's not a prophecy to predict that at some point this plane will be back on the ground.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

What specifically was in the prophecy and what specifically happened?

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

A prophet is one who speak for God so a prophesy need not be about predicting the future.

Do you have an example of someone confirmed by God to be a prophet making a prophesy? That will basically turn into a theological argument with no one able to prove their specific "God" so is really just an argument about whether God exists.

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

Viviane

Viv, after all we've been through, you're like a stuck record, specific names, dates and events. And I repeat, it would be impossible to get first hand knowledge of these things unless you have a time machine.

Yet we do know things about history, specific names, dates, events, etc., just none of of Biblical prophecy. It's clearly not impossible to know what happened in the past.

And the Council of Jamnia was your straw man (Phizzy also assisted there). Did you not read the quote from Prof. Kahle's book? You're right, it's not important, but you made an issue out of it.

A straw man? You brought it up, so you made a straw man argument against what? Ifit's not important, why did you bring it up? Why, if you brought it up, would have an issue with someone commenting on it?

But you were so sure of yourself, I thought you had proof, but actually you've only got the opinion of the person that wrote the Wikipedia article. What an anticlimax!

I did provide proof. Reality is often not as exciting as fantasy. The guy made up the council, no proof has ever been found in the 143 years since he made it up.

Since we clearly can know what happened in the past with specific names, dates and events recorded with no time machine needed, can anyone provide an example of a Biblical prophecy coming true exactly as foretold, having predicted specific names, dates and events?