Posts by Viviane

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

I suppose because it goes against the conventional teachings of Christianity, which to be honest, i'm feeling more and more alienated with (pardon the pun)

But, why not aliens, then? Why this specific one?

I think we all know in our heart of hearts what "good" actually is. Helping the poor, not commiting violence towards our fellow man (and animal for that matter). I'm not talking about religion either, more of a set of values.

Then why is there so much disagreement over it? Sometimes it IS appropriate to commit violence. What if there is disagreement over the distribution of resources? What if everyone doesn't agree that the way you think it should be is "good"? Or what if people don't like the jobs they get and think it's unfair and not good?

Well, i did state that i believed in evolution....Evolution and atheism are completely different.

I never said they were. I am pointing out that proof of evolution is there. It's not "evidence" as if it might not be real.

I beg to differ. No one knows what occurred before the big bang. We can speculate, but no one, as you put it, has solid proof and evidence on what was before the big bang.

That's literally what "no evidence for" means. You can't say there is evidence for God because we have no information or evidence. It actually and literally makes absolutely no sense.

There is NO evidence for god or a higher power.

61

KH 1st timer, could use some advice

by rathernotsay in

jw
friends

hey people, .

i am soon going into a kh for the first time and i could use some advice around etiquette etc.

i know next to nothing besides the fundamental beliefs of jws, i personally dont believe in any religion, and that stance isnt ever going to change, however i don't want to come across as rude or disrespectful.

Viviane

Slam that wine like it's going out of style. And bring some salami and cheese for the crackers.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Because i still want to believe in something more, i want to think that this isn't all there is. I think it's a pretty good halfway point for me to think that evolution did occur, but there was something that orchestrated it. Something put into the very fabric of cells that enable them to evolve even today.

OK, but why THIS specific belief with re-incarnation? Why this deism for which there is no evidence? Why not aliens?

If the "reward" for good deeds and a selfless attitude was there, and everyone believed it, there would be no wars, a lot less hungry, and equality for all

So everyone would have to define "good" in the same way and all agree at all times on what "good" means. Also, since when has religion ever stopped wars, wiped out hunger or created equality?

On one hand you have "evidence" saying evolution happened; but that does not mean that there wasn't something that set the whole process in motion.

No, there isn't "evidence" for evolution, there is simply evidence and proof. Evolution happened, happens and will happen.

In the same vane, there is no solid evidence saying there is "higher power" behind it all, although i am willing to accept that this could be the case.

No, not in the same vein. There is TONS of evidence and proof for evolution. It is a FACT. There is ZERO evidence for any higher power of any sort.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Looks like you still got that judgmental JW mindset. I clearly stated this is my belief right now, but am open to any other theories.

Looks like you've no idea what you're talking about. Please explain how asking questions about your belief, which you decided to publicly post on a religious discussion forum, is being judgmental? Please explain how pointing out obvious holes, which you admit exists, in your beliefs, is being judgmental?

Please explain why you decided, when you are unable to answer even the most basic questions about your belief, which you decided to bring up, is a reason for you to begin insulting people willing to have a discussion with you.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Today, he is watching and observing, but at the begining of life/creation he set the rules where things can evolve.
There is no evidence, as he never steps in. No miracles, no divine intervention.

Why do you believe this if there is no evidence for it?

I think that this conclusion, to me anyway, helps me to be a better person, and if everyone followed this way of life we would have peace love and eternal happiness.

Why would everyone be better if they believed this? Why should anyone believe this with no evidence?

I agree, my theory or belief has cracks in it, but my journey seperate to JW beliefs has taken me down this path.

It simply has zero evidence of any kind and no way to get evidence. It's not a crack or hole, it's lacking any substance to have a crack in it.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

My theory (or belief) is that there is a God or entity that we cannot comprehend, that is just watching and observing.
Evolution did occur, but it was orchestrated by this unknown entity we call God.

So, was this incomprehensible entity just watching and observing or actively orchestrating evolution (because it still happens today, meaning he is still actively doing stuff).

What evidence is there for this entity?

If we do not do good deeds, and have hate in our heart, we begin the process again, same soul, different body, but with no recollection on our previous life/life's. This process can be infinite, until we dig deep into our present consciousness, and understand the real meaning of Jesus words.

Why do you think that is the case?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

I am a senior engineer with a large engineering firm

I'm curious, what type of engineering scale do you carry in your pocket for when you need to measure how much money you have?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

Would your illustration be before or after that creation would have sinned to go from vegetation to meat.

You've zero proof that happened.

To have teeth for foraging and digging to preservation. The bible states vegetation, however you seem to imply a marvel of modern science to know implicitly. Did you build a time machine? So then, your point being!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you wish to continue, the forum is yours, I find your argument redundant at this point

Poor logic aside, you are simply making things up that is contradictory to all evidence to preserve the notion that your death cult blood god is worthy of fealty.

“We concluded that Josephoartigasia must have used its incisors for activities other than biting, such as digging in the ground for food, or defending itself from predators," Dr. Philip Cox, a professor of physiology at the University of York and Hull York Medical School in England, who led the research, said in a written statement.

You don't get to reject science when it proves your blood cult death god isn't real and then try to ride it like a temple concubine when you mistakenly think it helps your case.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

That would be incorrect,Viviane. I was just responding to Cofty's assumption: This is what happens when you feel free to make stuff up on the spot with no knowledge of your subject and no respect for facts.
So then the assertion of defending Cofty would draw the parallels on what you just mentioned.

Yes, you're responding, by making stuff up, some of it about teeth and others about Cofty. You're not respecting the facts or the limits of your own knowledge and certainly not other people.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Viviane

To call someone ignorant you must first study your own fallacies. Without it, your discussion becomes meaningless.

So, you're making an assumption that Cofty hasn't studied himself? Since you have know way of knowing that, wouldn't making such an assertion be an ignorant position to take?

With the hypothetical illustration of the dinosaurs sharp teeth. Science conforms that early dinosaurs had even sharp teeth. Your confusion starts as the animal kingdom developed let’s say fangs.

Full stop. Are you defining "sharp teeth" as fangs? If so, why? If not, why? Sharp molars? Teeth that broke? Molars ground by years of plant eating? All can be sharp, you've made no distinction, you need to be more clear on exactly what you are saying.

If that life cycle was created and turned into carnivore, it would explain the obvious, the animal kingdom adapted. Now you can include suffering, but not before.

The animal kingdom, prior to the existence of man had predation, disease, and painful death by other unfortunate circumstances. Animals suffered. If you assert an all loving god as the source of existence, you've still not explained suffering prior to mythical sin.