Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

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  87

  Why people don't believe in God

  by pressman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you want to know why i think people don't believe in god?

  well i believe people don't want to believe in god because they are scared.

  they know that if they finally do gorge the confidence to believe in him, he might discipline them for their skepticism.

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  Viviane

  Do you want to know why I think people don't believe in God? Well I believe people don't want to believe in God because they are scared.

  You asked if we wanted to know and then said your erroneous belief. Are you confusing "belief" with "fact"?
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  102

  A couple questions for atheists on Suffering

  by little_Socrates in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.

  do you find any value in suffering?.

  do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?

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  Viviane

  If you think about it, a world without world suffering would be nonsensical. Let me put it this way, you can't know light if there never was darkness. In the same manner you couldn't know suffering without happiness.

  So, can a child enjoy NOT being raped without having been raped?
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  102

  A couple questions for atheists on Suffering

  by little_Socrates in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.

  do you find any value in suffering?.

  do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?

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  Viviane

  its like you two are having a conversation with yourselves - so now who believes in imaginary beings? Caedes and viv

  You're the one who thinks child rape has value.

  fyi, Viviane, that is called a "straw man" argument ......... I leave it to YOU to figure it out.

  It's actually not at all a straw man argument. I'm not sad you've left.

  the reasoning seems to follow the line that if you are not with us then you must be against us and if you are against us you must be a theist. I'm more surprised that Caedes seems to be adopting this line of thought than viv.

  You've claimed suffering has value. You've been asked if that means child rape has value. You've said it can produce valuable things.

  Please tell me which part of your argument I've misrepresented.

  here is what viv accuses me of and I thought i was being very clear that I am not arguing this at all

  That's exactly 100% what you are arguing.

  as to viv's arguments if she had followed my pov without bias then she would clearly see that I am actually arguing the opposite of what she accuses me of here as i am most definitely not arguing that there is value in suffering itself although little socrates may be arguing from that pov.

  You've literally said that there was value in suffering, meaning there is value in child rape. Are you now NOT claiming that? How do you mostly not argue it? I've accused you of nothing. I merely state your position and argument.
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  Thanks for the research Viv.
  Extra-biblical testimony to Jesus is a lie that christians keep telling each other.

  Thanks Cofty. So it would appear.
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  Off to an Easter party now, I'll get back to this tomorrow. Good debate though.

  It's not a debate! You've made a lot of claims that don't hold up under even minimal scrutiny.

  Have fun at your party!
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  This is all about a historical Jesus

  I've not debated whether a man named Jesus existed. In fact, many did and that is quite well established. It was a rather common name.

  not about the accuracy of the bible as we have it today.

  It's well established it is NOT accurate.

  As for who killed him, the Romans may have carried out the deed, but it was the Sanhedrin who ordered it.

  According to the Bible they ASKED for it. Big big difference. The Sanhedrin didn't have the ability to order the Romans to do anything and that IS a historical fact.

  Unless you can find any historical documents talking about a man like Jesus that ALL jews embraced and that none of them were calling for him to be put to death, but that the Romans themselves did this, then it stands it really was the Jews responsible for it.

  Sorry, that's not how it works. It's a fact that, according to the Bible, the Romans killed Jesus, that it was their decision. There no actual historical documents about a man like Jesus at all, and the quasi-semi-historical documents we do have is clear that the Jews asked and the Romans agreed and did the deed.
  

  Even the ancient contemporary scholars as my previous posts show they believed that as well.

  You've not quoted any scholars, but rather religious texts promoting a clearly false and contradictory point of view.
  
  
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  I fixed crucified before you had replied, but yes he said murdered

  He said executed, actually.

  Now as for the Romans killing him, the Romans were an instrument.

  The Romans killed him.

  Who called for this death?

  Pontius Pilate, the only Roman at the time and place that could.

  IF the 'wise king' who the Jews murdered, then their city was ABOLISHED shortly after

  The text says "kingdom was abolished", NOT "city". Jews had no kingdom at the time Jesus was killed, nor was he ever king.

  Mara is asserting that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD happened not too long after the murder of the Wise King of the Jews.

  Mara never once said any such thing. You are literally making that up.

  As he did disasters that befell those who killed Socrates. So if it's not Jesus, who else fits the bill?

  An actual king who was executed and whose kingdom was shortly thereafter abolished. None of those match Jesus.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  I think this is the only and first comment of yours I've ever liked and laughed at haha. Nice find.

  No one is perfect.
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  Not talking about Jesus? Who is the man he says they worship? Who is the distinguished personage who introducted their rites and was crucified? Who was their original lawgiver?

  Just because I mock Juggalos doesn't mean I've once mentioned ICP. Similarly, that text mocks Christians and doesn't say Jesus once.

  He said, "Their Wise King". Not "a" Wise King. The sign on Jesus cross said, "King of the Jews". Tell me another historical figure that non Jews place among names such as Socrates that the Jews had crucified and could be considered a wise king?

  First, he never said "crucified", so attempting to associate "crucified" with "executed" is disingenuous at best. Secondly, Jesus was crucified by the Romans, not Jews. Third, he NEVER mentions Jesus. You saying he does is completely untrue.
  
  
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Viviane

  Really? Which of the jews wise king did they murder then?

  Really. He never says which one he is thinking of.

  What did the sign post on Jesus cross say? John 19:19 if you forgot.

  It certainly doesn't say "Wise King". Jesus never WAS king, in any event.

  Mara Bar-Serapion refers to Jesus as the “Wise King”:

  He refers to A wise king but never names him or otherwise indicates he in talking about Jesus. Your claim is 100% untrue.