Posts by Viviane

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Since the lack of belief is said to be supported on the lack of evidence, my perplexity is this

For some. For others, they simply don't care, or they think it's ridiculous or they've never been exposed to the idea to believe or not believe.

Lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge. [You may call this a "major unfounded assertion", but you haven't proven me wrong.]

It's a ridiculous assertion. I don't have to prove you wrong, you have to prove you right. Proceeding from the standpoint that others must prove you wrong is exactly backwards.

In any event, not having evidence for god in no way leads directly to a lack of knowledge of god. Indeed, I could know everything anyone has ever written about god, but if god doesn't exist, there isn't a lack of knowledge to be had. The evidence is commensurate with the knowledge.

I can only know something because I have evidence about it.

You are attempting to use a positive, non-corollary statement to prove your negative. It doesn't work like that. It's not either A or !A. For instance, if someone tells me they are sitting on my couch next to me and I look over and they aren't there. I have evidence that they aren't there. They tell me they are invisible, so I reach out and touch nothing but air. I have further evidence they aren't there. They then tell me they are incorporeal but definitely sitting there.

I have no evidence to disprove that claim, however, I now know they are full of it, no matter how much they believe it (or don't).

What you are attempting to do is conflate a situation where the people making the claims can't tell you how to get evidence, can't describe in any meaningful terms what the thing they believe in is or what it is made of or where it is or how it exists with actual things we can go figure out how to get evidence for. The two things don't correlate like that.

Ergo, lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge.

Ergo, go build an internally consistent argument so we can have an actual discussion and stop attributing things to people they didn't say.

What is more logically sound, then:
"There's no evidence, therefore, I don't know"; or
"There's no evidence, therefore, I lack belief?"

It depends on what you are discussing. If it's whether or not to believe in god, then "I don't believe" is more logically sound. If it's asking whether or not something is true or exists as a point of fact, then "I don't know" would be more appropriate.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Notice that "belief" is characterized as a feeling, state of mind, conviction. Never as knowledge.

I never said it was. Are you trolling your own thread?

My question is: If lack of evidence cannot produce positive knowledge, on what grounds is the lack of belief of an atheist more sound than the belief of a theist?

Is that your new question? It certainly wasn't your first one. Are you changing questions?

I stand corrected if you can prove me that lack of evidence can produce positive knowledge.

I never made such a claim, no idea why you would ask me to prove it to you.

I suggest you read very carefully what I write (as well as what you write) and make sure you very clearly understand what I say. For instance, I NEVER said lack of evidence leads to positive knowledge. You somehow got that, but I never said nor implied it. In this specific case, there is a lack of evidence that you are reading carefully, leading to the positive knowledge that you are adding in your own meaning.

You may sit down now.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

Lack of evidence leads to lack of knowledge.

That's a ridiculous platitude that makes a major unfounded assumption.

In turn, lack of knowledge may lead to lack of belief, but not necessarily. Some people believe - or don't believe - irrespective of knowledge to justify such beliefs.'

So? People do what they want. I can only speak for me.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Viviane

But since no distinction exists in English, when we're dealing with how atheism asserts the non-belief in deities, what belief exactly are we talking about?

Depends on who you ask. I lack belief due to lack of evidence. Other atheists actively believe there are none.

Since neither version of atheist has a belief in and diety, they certainly can't have trust in that deity.

27

PSALMS 83: 18 What is the name of God ?

by william draper in

so many of us have been taught that the name of god is jehovah , if like me many have come to really appreciate god's name .. .

more accurately we , at least many or most love the name of jehovah , or more accurately should i say this pronunciation .

does god care what we call him , of course he does , he had his name written in the bible as yhwh ( best i can do on this computer ) , more than 6000 times .

Viviane

Who calls their father by his first name!

I do, but then, I've disowned him and refuse to give him that honorific simply because we share some twisted strands of DNA.

27

PSALMS 83: 18 What is the name of God ?

by william draper in

so many of us have been taught that the name of god is jehovah , if like me many have come to really appreciate god's name .. .

more accurately we , at least many or most love the name of jehovah , or more accurately should i say this pronunciation .

does god care what we call him , of course he does , he had his name written in the bible as yhwh ( best i can do on this computer ) , more than 6000 times .

Viviane

Although there appears to be still lacking evidence , very oddly there are incitations of God's name having been written in the New Testament , besides Jws , others speak of MATTHEW as possibly have been originally in Hebrew , but no real evidence of this found as of yet .

Matthew was never written in Hebrew or Aramaic, it was written in Koine Greek. There are no signs of translations and it fits perfectly with other examples of text written natively in that language.

Interestingly, YHWH is a modern (in the Jewish sense) invention, an amalgamation of a much older god EL and YHWH. The earliest writings about YHWH are nothing like the later writings, he was a much more personal and local god. Later, as the the proto-Jewish Semitic people became more isolated from their Semitic counterparts, YHWH began to take on the all powerful properties of EL. He lost his consort, Asherah. His brother Ba'al became his enemy.

12

Paranormal activity in a room at Ohio University

by economy in

why this room (no 428), located at ohio university, is unavailable to students?.

it has been boarded up and closed off because of various paranormal reports regarding the room.

poltergeist activity has been felt: objects flying across the room, doors that open and shut by themselves, and dark shadows appearing and disappearing without explanation.

Viviane

A bunch of people say a room is haunted.

So?

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

If being a bible believing (non-cult) christian makes me a bigot (in your eyes)--then yes I am proud!

Oh, sorry, perhaps you didn't know that Christianity IS a cult. It's your disgusting attempts to dehumanize an entire group of people based on cherry picked morality and wavering convictions that are disgusting.

Be proud of that. It's an ever smaller and more exclusive club you belong to.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

And Viv, excuse me, but grow a BACKBONE? WTF? Are you losing your edginess that we have all come to know, expect and love? Backbone? That is not the body parts he needs to grow according to the Viv I know and love.

No, but I told Simon I would stop making all the boys cry.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Viviane

I am not the least bit upset--in fact I would be surprised if you werent that way at all. I realize you are an atheist, and in being so, this is to be expected. If you were supporting me, talking decently to me, and not resorting to name calling, then I would know that I was in the wrong.

As I said, accusing others of your own behavior is a common tactic amongst those who seek to dehumanize others. Your views and actions are disgusting and you are a poor example of a human.

Grow a backbone, for heaven's sake, and be proud of the bigoted views you hold. At then I could respect you for standing up for what you believe in. Now it's just sad watching pretend you're a victim for being a bigot and having issues with your sexuality.