Posts by Viviane

41

What Comes After the Watchtower Collapse?

by schnell in

i was going to put this in my thread about pyramid schemes, but i thought it's discreet enough to warrant its own.

1) there are many faithful jws.

2) there are many men and women who could take control and fill the void if the watchtower collapses.

Viviane

What makes you think they will collapse?

24

i really hate all these "what if" posts

by nowwhat? in

all these hypothetical questions about the organization's demise or what if god did this or that don't do anyone any good.

personal experiences.

info and insight about your congregation, circuit, area and the watchtower itself is what we need.

Viviane

what if.... there were no "what if..." posts?

26

Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?

by deegee in

the blame for mankind's sicknesses/diseases and consequent death has been placed squarely on the shoulders of adam:.

romans 5:12, 17 - 19:"therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—for if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man.......consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people........for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners........".

1 corinthians 15: 21, 22:"for since death came through a man........... for as in adam all die.......".

Viviane

How do Bible literalists explain that one ?

Obviously put there by Satan to tempt your faith.

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

Again, you insist and make claims about what I posted after clearly telling you that that's not what I said.

That's a religious person for you, posting something and then denying the plain words mean what they mean or that they ever even posted it. It's the only way for your religious texts to make sense, so I shouldn't be surprised when that extends into your own writings.

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

So you did say it, but you also didn't? That makes about as much sense as your interpretations of the Bible or Donald Trump when he talks.

Look, you said it. It's plain to see. Why are you also trying to claim the opposite?

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

I never said that. Read the related chapter. Conclude what you like..

Uh, yeah you did. You said "they knew for a fact that Jesus was resurrected from the dead".

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

All Paul is doing is debunking the belief that sprouted up among the Christians back then that there is no resurrection of the dead with the logic that they already knew for a fact that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and that was a basis for faith in the resurrection of others too. In fact, the resurrection of Jesus is what they were preaching about.

Slow down there, turbo-dog. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Where did Paul say in that passage that they knew for a fact Jesus had been raised?

(These guys back then weren't teaching from some book they read which was written some thousands of years ago. ( The Bible so states that:)

Well, books didn't exist back then, so of course they weren't. However, they were preaching from scrolls and teachings from thousands of years ago.

They were testifying about what they saw and heard-not hearsay or something that they read off some book, and that is what being a witness is all about.

Paul never met Jesus when he was on Earth, even by the time the Gospels were written, most of the followers of Jesus had never seen nor heard the man.

Facts cannot be invalidated; neither with logic, not with arguments, not with other facts. Facts stand on their own and everyone back then was convinced for a fact that Jesus rose from the dead and no one could prove to them otherwise. And that proof was a basis for faith in the resurrection -not of Jesus- but of everybody else.

Being convinced of something doesn't make that thing a fact, nor is it proof of anything.

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

Oooh, Christian fight!

In this corner, we have cult A using scriptures out of context and claiming they mean things they don't. In that corner we have cult B denying the scriptures say what they plainly say.

Who will prevail?

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

Viv, are you saying that if God communicated with you same as he did with Abraham before he decided to have faith and same as he did with Noah before he decided to build the ark, that is not proof?

Proof of what? That a flood would come? That I would be pregnant at 90? Proof that a god exists? Proof that I need to see a doctor? Proof that an incredibly advanced alien was pretending to be god?

How did Abraham know he was talking to god, specifically? Some guy writing down that some other guy talked to god isn't "proof" of anything.

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Viviane

Viv, every person mentioned in Hebrews 11 had proof from God

Hebrews 11:1, my friend. Why do you deny the words of Paul?

something that they observed and knew with certainty to be real- before they decided to have faith

Nooope. Noah built the ark before he saw the flood. Abraham went, by faith, so somewhere he had no proof of. Sarah had faith before she had proof she would bear a child.

All of your examples, when considered, show your claim to be false.

Even myself, without convincing evidence, I would not be able to have any faith, my mind would not trust something subjective 100 percent. The mind trusts proof.

That is literally the opposite of faith. You are denying what you were commanded to do as a Christian according to Paul.

Take for examples the wilderness trek, pillar of cloud, pillar of fire, the ten plagues, manna from the heavens, water from a rock, the red sea -and with all that proof Israelites still needed faith that God would keep his promise.

And the Israelites were called a faithless people. So what?