by chuckyy 18 Replies latest jw experiences
Yes Top Hat
All you need to do is to write a letter of disassociation to your local cong.
I suggest that you post the letters to your friends at the same time as the disassociation letter.
I also just wanted to warn you in a way of the emotional rollercoaster that you are embarking upon.
Being shunned by former friends is not easy to deal with. In the end though, it is worth that initial hardship.
Feel free to vent your feelings on this site as many here understand the emotions involved.
CHUKYY
I suppose there are philosophical and discernible practical similarities. Selective copy and pastes bring up these neat quotes:
***
yb72 p. 134 Czechoslovakia ***Germany had resigned from the League of Nations... Thus the first part of 1938 passed.
You mean in 1938 Germany wasn't part of the scarlet colored wild beast?
***
g85 6/8 p. 7 Could It Happen Again? ***Hitler’s homeland, Austria, which he incorporated into his Third Reich in March of 1938, is not without such groups. Some older Austrians look back with a certain longing to that period in history when the Nazis ruled their country. Such older ones are upset over today’s promiscuous youths with their sloppy clothing and drug culture, and the older ones are prone to complain that "such a thing could never have happened under Hitler." They may even reminisce about the Hitler days when "you could walk the streets at night without fear."
Look at the similar language. Selective quoting is so much fun. Maybe I should be sued by the WT instead of Quotes.
***
sm p. 3 The Time for True Submission to God ***DO YOU love righteousness? ...Needless to say, people today do not live in unity like brothers and sisters... Can you walk the streets alone in the dark without fear?
***
w60 10/1 pp. 582-583 "Get Out of Her, My People"! ***Commenting on this, the London Daily Telegraph and Morning Post of May 27, 1960, said: "What an appalling age ours is of the 20th century, compared with the civilized humanity, the hopes of indefinite liberal progress of the 19th century. We have lived amid the barbarism of two world wars, the ruin and devastation, the loss of millions of precious lives; the rise of brutal forces like Russian communism and German national socialism with their deliberate killings of further millions; the virtual extermination of the Jews in Europe; the discovery of nuclear fission to put an end to the whole thing, with no corresponding increase of human wisdom, or political sense, to prevent it. Above all, though we play at our games, there is the sickening feeling of everything being on the brink."
Wait, wait, we can top that.
***
w61 8/1 p. 469 Enlarging Your Privileges of Service ***After God’s execution of judgment upon the wicked in his war of Armageddon, the earthly subjects of the King will have before them a world-wide cleanup program that will eclipse anything this globe has ever seen. Countless numbers of human dead will have to be buried.
*** w56 8/1 p. 464 Jehovah’s Message Against Gog of Magog ***So devastating that slaughter, the dead will cover the ground as manure spread over a field... In the wake of Armageddon’s carnage, disease and pestilence from the rot and decay would plague the survivors were it not for the fact that Jehovah sends forth an invitation to the birds and beasts to attend this great slaughter... This certainly shows the contempt in which Jehovah holds the proud and haughty of Gog’s system, letting the wild beasts and vultures feed upon them as worthless carrion!
What the heck is with THIS paragraph?
*** w56 8/1 p. 464 Jehovah’s Message Against Gog of Magog ***
With such a glorious feast of victory concluded, only the bones, bones from one end of the earth to the other, will be left for burial. What a task that will be for the survivors, to cleanse the earth of every remaining evidence of Gog’s forces! Even with the work well organized it will take seven months, Jehovah says, just to bury the bones. Scouting corps will be sent out on a full-time basis to search the land thoroughly and, when bones are found, markers will be set up for those with the spades and shovels who follow.
*** w87 5/15 p. 6 What Other Benefits Flow From God? ***Who will survive the devastating global cleanup, or Armageddon?
*** w89 9/1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.
Truely disgusting.
*** w56 8/1 p. 464 Jehovah’s Message Against Gog of Magog ***
With such a glorious feast of victory concluded, only the bones, bones from one end of the earth to the other, will be left for burial. What a task that will be for the survivors, to cleanse the earth of every remaining evidence of Gog’s forces! Even with the work well organized it will take seven months, Jehovah says, just to bury the bones. Scouting corps will be sent out on a full-time basis to search the land thoroughly and, when bones are found, markers will be set up for those with the spades and shovels who follow.
Sounds like New O'rleans...just popped into my head there.
Cygnus, please don't take this as overly critical. If you are going to copy the selective quoting techniques of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and its subsidiary organizations you should use elipses and brackets much more frequently . Don't leave any possibility of a reader misunderstanding just how clearly the quoted material supports your viewpoint. Here's an example:
*** w61 8/1 p. 469 Enlarging Your Privileges of Service ***
After God’s execution of judgment upon the wicked in his war of Armageddon, the earthly subjects of the King will have before them a world-wide cleanup program that will eclipse anything this globe has ever seen. Countless numbers of human dead will have to be buried.
becomes:
*** w61 8/1 p. 469 Enlarging Your Privileges of Service ***After God’s execution of judgment upon the [deceitful elements of human society] in his war of Armageddon, the earthly subjects of the [Governing Body] ... will have to be buried.
Don't worry. Keep at it. You just need more practice .
AuldSoul
I STRONGLY DISAGREE WE ARE NOT LIKE NAZIS
This letter was originally in German, and the English translation is made by M. James Penton. The complete story of the JWs attempt to compromize with Hitler can be read in The Christian Quest, Vol. 3, No. 1 - Spring 1990.
HITLER LETTER-ENGLISH TRANSLATION
WATCH TOWER
BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY
PUBLISHERS OF THE BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION
GENERAL OFFICES: 117 ADAMS TREET BROOKLYN NEW YORK, U.S.A.
GERMAN BRANCH:
WACHTTURMSTR.1 - 19
MAGDEBURG
POSTSCH.-K.: MAGDEBURG 4042
TELEPHONE, MAGDEBURG 405 56,405 57, 405 58
RADIO AND CABLE ADDRESS: WATCHTOWER MAGDEBURG
Most Honored Mr. Chancellor:
On June 25, 1933, a 5,000-delegate convention of German Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses), representing several million Germans who have been friends and followers of this movement for many years, was held in the Sporthalle Wilmersdorf in Berlin. The purpose of this meeting was to find ways and means of making known to you, Mr. Chancellor, and to other high government officials of the German Reich, as well as L=E4nder [state] governments, the following:
In some parts of the country measures are being taken against an association of earnest Christian men and women which has positive Christianity as its foundation. Because of their origin, these measures can be regarded as nothing less than the persecution of one group of Christians by another, since the accusations which trigger them [the measures] are levelled from clerical, especially Catholic, quarters and are untrue. Absolutely convinced of the full objectivity of the government departments and officials dealing with these matters, we nevertheless recognize that because of the volume of our literature on one hand and because of the heavy workload of the relevant case workers on the other, the content of our literature and the purpose of our movement are judged in large part incorrectly, specifically in accord with the views-which cause prejudice-that our religious opponents bring against us.
For this reason the matters discussed at the convention have been set down in the attached declaration of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in order to convey to you, Mr. Chancellor, and to the senior departments of the governments of the German Reich and the Leander as documentation of the fact that German Bible Students intend only, as the sole objective of their work, to lead mankind back to God and to witness to and give honor to the name of Jehovah, the Almighty, the Father of our Lord and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, here on the earth. We are secure in the knowledge that you, Mr. Chancellor, will not let such activity be disturbed.
German Bible Student congregations are generally known as havens of true reverence for the Almighty and as ardent custodians of careful biblical research. Local police authorities must always affirm that Bible Students definitely have to be counted as among those elements of the country and people that love and support order. Their only mission is the recruitment of human hearts that love God. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is the Bible Students' organizational mission center (for Germany: with head offices in Magdeburg).
The Brooklyn administration of the Watch Tower Society is and in the past has been outstandingly friendly to Germany. For this reason, the president of the Society and seven members of its Board of Directors in the United States were sentenced to 80 years imprisonment because the president refused to use two magazines published by him in the United States for war propaganda against Germany. These two magazines, "The Watch Tower" and "Bible Student" [The Bible Students Monthly] were the only magazines in the United States which refused ]to publish] war propaganda against Germany and were, for this reason, outlawed and suppressed in the United States during the war.
In a similar manner, the administration of our Society not only refused to participate in the horror propaganda against Germany, but it took a position against it. This is emphasized by the attached Declaration which refers to the fact that the circles which led [in promoting] horror propaganda in the United States (commercialistic Jews and Catholics) are also the most eager persecutors of our Society's work and its administration. These and other statements in our Declaration are meant to serve as a rejection of the slanderous claim that the Bible Students are supported by Jews.
The representative convention of these five thousand delegates took notice with great satisfaction of the statement by the governing president of Magdeburg that the connection between Bible Students and Communists or Marxists, claimed by our clerical opponents, cannot be substantiated (and thus is slanderous as well). A relevant press report in the Magdeburg Daily News No. 104 of May 5, 1933 says:
A government declaration regarding the occupation of Bible Student House.-The government press center announces: "Police occupation of property owned by the Earnest Bible Students Association has been ended since no incriminating material regarding a claimed Communist activity was found."
Further: the Magdeburg Daily News No. 102 of May 3, 1933 [states]:
From the office of the Bible Students' Association we have receive word that the actions initiated by the police against the Watch Tower Society and the Bible Students' Association have been completely ended. All material was released because a careful search revealed that those societies are not guilty either in a political or criminal way and because it was further determined that both societies are absolutely apolitical and strictly religious [in nature].-Upon our questioning, the government
confirmed the correctness of our report.
The representative convention of these five thousand delegate stressed that, following these circumstances, it would find it beneath its dignity to defend itself in future against the contemptible accusation of Marxist or Communist activity. The delegates refuted the accusations of our religious opponents, which are clearly a sign of religious competition. They [the religious opponents] would prefer to throttle truthful herald of warning with slander rather than [use] the Word c God.
Further, it was stated at the five-thousand-delegate convention-a expressed in the Declaration-that Bible Students are fighting for the same high, ethical goals and ideals that the National Government a the German Reich proclaimed regarding the relationship of man t God, namely: honesty of the created towards the Creator!
At the convention, it was stated that there are no opposing views in the relationship between German Bible Students and the National Government of the German Reich, but that, to the contrary, respecting the purely religious and apolitical goals and objectives of the Bible Students, it can be said that these are in complete harmony with the similar goals of the National Government of the German Reich.
Because of the supposedly harsh language of our literature, some of our books were banned. The five-thousand-delegate convention pointed out in this connection that the contents of our books that were objected referred only to circumstances in the Anglo-American World Empire and that it-especially England-is to be held responsible for the League of Nations and the unjustified treaties and burdens placed on Germany. The things said in the above-mentioned spirit are therefore directed-whether in
a financial, political, or Roman Catholic (ultramontane) sense-against the oppressors of the German people and country, not against the Germany struggling against these burdens. Thus the bans [on Bible Student literature] are made absolutely incomprehensible.
To those various German L=E4nder in which there occurred bans on Bible Student religious services, prohibitions of prayer meetings, etc., those [Bible Students], who have waited for weeks for a just resolution of the situation which is stifling to their religious life, expressed the following:
We will continue to conform to the regulations of prohibition issued [against us] because we are confident that you, Mr. Chancellor, or the governments of the Lender, will lift these measures-by which tens of thousands of Christian men and women would fall victim to a martyrdom reminiscent of that of the original Christians-once the true state of affairs is known.
Finally, this five-thousand-delegate convention stated that the Bible Student-Watch Tower organization stands for the maintenance of order and the security of the state as well as for the enhancement of the above mentioned, religiously related high ideals of the National Government. In order to make this known above all to you, Mr. Chancellor, as the Leader of the German people, and to other high government officials of the Reich and the Lender, the sentiments expressed briefly above were set down in detail in the attached Declaration.
The attached Declaration was read [publicly] by the secretary of the five-thousand-delegate, Bible Student Convention, was approved unanimously [by Convention delegates], and was adopted with the instruction that a single copy of it and of the Convention Report be conveyed to the Chancellor of the Reich and to other high officials of the Reich and the Lender.
This is done with the most respectful plea that the request expressed in the Declaration be granted in a most positive manner: namely, to give a commission [drawn] from within our midst the opportunity of making a responsible exposition regarding the facts to you, Mr. Chancellor, or the Minister of the Interior, personally. Failing that, [we request] that a commission of men be appointed by you, Mr. Chancellor, who arc not religiously prejudiced against us-that is of men who are themselves not by
profession interested in religious matters but who would alone truly examine our concerns without prejudice and according to the just principles enunciated by the Chancellor of the Reich him-
self. By these principles we mean the statements in Section 24 of Platform of the National Socialist German Workers Party:
"We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state so long they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the ethical and moral beliefs of the German race.
The Party, as such, represents the viewpoint of positive Christianity without associating itself with a specific confession. It opposes the Jewish-materialist spirit domestically and abroad and is convinced that a lasting recuperation our people can only happen from the inside out....''
We are firmly convinced that the National Government of German will find no reason to hinder our services or missionary activities if are judged, first, without religious prejudice and, second, according the Platform points quoted above.
With anticipation of an early, positive assent [to our requests] a with the assurance of our highest esteem, most honored Mr. Chancellor, we remain,
Most respectfully,
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society Magdeburg
Early in the history of the NAZI party there was a power struggle, in which the brown shirts were rounded up and shot.
Rutherford could not have the committee selected by Russell in his will to be shot, but there was a power struggle in which dissenting voices were silenced and ejected. JWs are not like NAZIS - they are worse because they claim God is in charge of them and their vicious attitudes.
HB
See the real problem is how people accept doctrine over science... Science has proven that if someone is gay he or she is gay because of genetics and hormone imbalances at birth. But to Christians science, empirical data, fact and any form of concrete proof is nothing next to their supposed holly word. What’s worse is that for some reason this same crowd of people think that gays will marry toasters and I find that rather strange...But then most Christians are also aolers which means they are dumb and have the sexual maturity of a 12 year old boy. Christians believe that their religion is the only valid one and that everyone must be converted. What the Catholics don’t remember is things like the pope hat for instance... The pope hat was taken from a Gallic tradition of where certain males were given goddess status by the removal of their penis and tentacles. See they wore the pope hat to the temple and then got their stuff chopped and then they removed the hat.-Origins of the pope hat- The Christians have stolen other goodies like Easter eggs and Xmass trees- both pagan in origin and by the way paganism predates Christianity. Thus which rel is more valid? Lets see Christians feel that marriage is about breeding. Well now, let see, couples who cant have children> they should be excommunicated they should be told they are unsanctified and unholy and wrong because they are unable to have children. Hmmm lets see there are over 6 billion people in the world- despite war famine and disease. yet The purpose of a woman is still to fart out one kid after another. so that they can validate the Christian point of view. HMMm and speaking of war. More wars have been fought and caused by Christians than any other people. Yes lots of innocent blood has been shed. Once a man said to me "well I voted for George bush cuz he supports good Christian values which is what America was founded on" I explained to him that America was founded on slavery, agricultural trade with England our former oppressors and hierocracy. Most of all Murder of the Natives of this land and the introduction of deadly viruses that wiped out a great many of the native Americans who live here. And George bush is a demonic money hungry demon wrapped in human flesh who wants power and blood-oil soaked money. He and his kind are the reason so many bad things are happening now and really if his kind remain in power the world will come to and end. The majority of the people who are Christians are in fact mindless sheep who are the foundation of the all these power mongers. They don’t know how badly they are being used and deceived and People like George bush who is the Architect of 911- mass murder thief and liar are sitting back laughing about it while they rake in the cash. According to the book of Mathew. In the king james version. Christ described what it is to be Christian... love your neighbor' do unto others as you would have them do unto you' and several other things none of which said hate or kill or anything like that nothing about judging others- He even mentioned that the old testament was not to be followed because he was here to bring in the new. of Course they nailed him to a cross... Myself I don’t believe in god never will, never have because I find it to be primitive- A society that believes in a god needs one because they are primitive weak and ignorant. One man said to me "dinosaurs are e not real hell they were not even in the bible." I had to laugh pretty hard at this imbecile. I said to him " you deny science and proof?" I looked at the florescent light and pointed at the bulb. "science makes the light not your faith or god or anything else" he then said to me " no Physics makes the light work" I said to him "Physics is a branch of science" ...further proving the level of knowledge that exist in most of the fundamentalist crusader type camp. The man of course had embarrassed himself and walked away knowing he had been defeated. Why because Belligerence will never replace intelligence. He of course called me a bitch under his breath while walking away. When you consider how the masses of Christians are duped by even the simplest of things it is amazing at how much money they spend. I know of a slice of toast that looks like the mother marry. People have paid to view it! insane. In Florida my old stomping grounds. There was a window on a building that seemed to take on the shape of mother marry so people were putting chairs and hold masses there. utterly stupid right? well it gets better. I know of another woman who has a door on her bathroom she prays to because it has the shape of Jesus in the word grain. Ultra stupid. Finally I hope the bombs drop- Yes I do. I hope that most of man kind is killed by nukes - then we may rebuild a new world where people love it and each other rather than hate. Separations over sexuality- religion and weather your are a man or woman will be nonexistent. No more money and power. but rather people who seek higher things. No more plasma TVs or video games no more internet no more pope or presidents with agendas...And maybe in a thousand years when we branch out into space aliens we meet will not destroy us because we are a lame paranoid race of religious bigots who feed off of the pain of others biggotry and our own hypocrisy. A wise man once said. "the antichrist is in the church" How true.
Yawn. You have got to be kidding. I know, next we can do a comparison with the KKK, and then the Mongols, and then, then, oh yeah, the Mouseketeers!
