Question for Freedom Lover (Mrs ITIS) (page 2)

jgnat

FreedomLover, it is so important to those of us married to JW's to hear your perpective, so fresh out of it. You give us all hope.

I think, Severus, the key is to offer a positive alternative. The Watchtower Society is built on negatives - all other religions got it wrong. Try and make a list of JW beliefs and you end up with a long list of don'ts and shan'ts. We too often offer a JW the double negative - the WTBTS is wrong, too! Then what is the poor Witness left for their foundation? Nothing!

Positive alternatives may be:

For social interaction, a club or hobby like bowling or bird-watching or yoga!
For meaning, involvement in a charity of some kind
For study, the local library or a writing club
For spirituality, a personal study and prayer time (sans Watchtower materials) once a week
For dress-up, ballroom dancing!

I hope you see what I mean.

ithinkisee

Wow ... pretty cool to come home and read this tonight!

Whodathunkit?

It wasn't just me that got us to this point .... thanks to everyone on JWD.

-ithinkisee

M.J.

My wife isn't much of a researcher, I'm afraid...But she does understand the WTS explanation of the 607 thing reasonably well. The only thing I've noticed her research was a book I left lying around about "Jehovah" in the NT, from http://tetragrammaton.org

the book was very respectfully written by a person who wasn't necessarily "apostate" but a Christian who had been studying with JWs while researching this issue.

She even admitted she liked how the author encouraged the reader to NOT take his word for anything but to make it a springboard for his/her own research. The problem was that the book was not written in her native language so she found it difficult to follow. So I collected 2 other books from the same author which were written more simply and concisely. I think when I started heaping these on her it waived a red flag. She stopped looking into it. But I know for certain that the episode caused some real doubts in her.

One mistake I previously made was to hand her an elaborate chart of the 607 thing, showing all the evidence against that date. Too overwhelming. Pissed her off. this was quite some time ago.

More recently we've patched up a lot of our trust issues, and we're getting along great. I think I might leave out a KISS example of the 607 thing this time, using a WT CD printout of the '65 watchtower showing the regnal lengths and order of all those kings they refused to comment on thereafter, along with my handwritten tallying of the years...Don't know how that one will go over.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud.

I'd like to ask a few questions, FL, if I may: Through reading the "Toxic Faith" book, how effective was seeing the parallels between other "high control" religious leaders and the WTS for you? Did such a comparison go a long way in helping you realize that they are just a group of men like anyone else? Do you think that highlighting parallels like this in a subtle way would have been effective while you were still mentally "in"?

Anyway, it's so great to have you on the board and offering your insight!

freedomlover

M.J. - I don't know about you but right now the Daniel book is being studied at book study and it's what really started me searching for the date stuff....to make sense of it all. If your wife is still attending and she is doing this book at book study right now, I would play kind of the dumb approach such as " I've been trying to figure the dates of stuff out from the WTS and it isn't adding up. can you help me?" (I can show you scriptures to use, and articles you can pull of the Cd Rom.) That's kind of what fired me up to do my own research. But if she isn't into research.......

I really liked Toxic Faith because I've also read books like Toxic Parents and the patterns were SOOO similar in dysfunction it was unreal to me! If I could tell you anything I would say "don't PUSH anything!" It just turns up the JW radar to view you as dangerous. I would check out the book Toxic Faith and read it yourself first. It may help to break the ice in some way with your wife.....especially if she can spot people/groups who have severe dysfunction. Hope this helps? Freedomlover

GoingGoingGone

Hi M.J. -

Just thought I'd throw this out there...

Back in 1992, I read a book called 'Wild Swans' by Jung Chang. It's a true story of 3 generations of women in China - the author's grandmother, her mother, and herself. She describes the clandestine activities her parents engaged in in helping bring Communism to power in China, the hardships they endured, and later the prestige they enjoyed because of their earlier 'legwork'. In time, however, her father witnessed Communist policies and practices that he found to be corrupt and destroying the lives of the common person, and could not take part in these. That put him in pretty hot water. He finally blurted out something against Mao to some of his well-placed collegues, which was the ultimate crime. From that point on, this once die-hard Communist was persecuted, his family ostracized, and he died an early death.

As I began to read this book, I had no conscious doubts about the JWs. But the description of the worship of Mao, of the rise of hardworking 'common people' to the ranks of 'ruler', the consequent doubts that arose in the minds of said people and their inability to express them, and the persecution that arose when they finally broke down and said what they thought... It was all too much. There were waaaaaaay too many parallels to be drawn. I remember literally shaking at times, with the realization of what type of organization I was actually stuck in. I had honestly never seen it as a 'controlling' type of organization before that, believe it or not.

At any rate, my point is that there are all kinds of ways to place subtle doubt. Some may not even have to do with religion at all.... You never know what might hit a nerve....

GGG

Severus

Thanks FreedomLover and ITIS. You direct answers are exactly what I hoped you would say.

For me, the information about 607/587 is very apparent. My own study of JW doctrine utterly consumed and obsessed me in an avalanche of information.

My challenge is to lead my wife to this knowledge without being a devious manipulator. You comments and others on this thread are great help in structuring my objective. Thank you again for your honesty and sincerity.

freedomlover

Severus - just a thought you may like to use for your wife -

I'm assuming she is still going to meetings and reading WT's? If she is, there was a great article in this past Sunday's WT on Mennonites (WT Sept. 1, 2005 pg. 23)

I read through this article just in disbelief at some of the similarities of how the Mennonites handle things and the WTS. some highlights include -

Last para. under the subheading "Mennonites Today"-

" so as to keep us under their control, the preachers don't let us learn Spanish." (the language of the country they LIVE in!) "Many feel oppressed and live in dread of being expelled from the community - a terrible prospect for one who has never experienced life outside."

The subheading "Facing Trials for the Truth"

Backround - a group of Mennonites had ONE bible study with witnesses and their elders came around to question them and tell them to stop!"

the Mennonites replied " We cannot do as you ask." "How did the elders react? They expelled them for studying the Bible!" "This was a cruel blow indeed."

Do the similarities scream out to anyone else or is it just me??!! Maybe she would have a seed planted by reading this article. Just a thought.....I know I"m keeping this article to use in the future with some of my loved ones......

confusedjw

Could someone scan and post that please? Thanks in advance if someone does.

Welcome Freedom Lover. You're experience of leaving is very much like my wife's and mine. Also with children. Glad for you all

M.J.

Thanks so much for the response, FL, and I certainly would appreciate some of the scriptures that may help with the dates stuff relevant to what is being studied in the Daniel book. I'm pretty familiar with the standard arguments there, but I wouldn't want to miss anything good...

GGG thanks for your insight too. It definitely helps.

BrendaCloutier

Wow!

Simply.... Wow!

Severus, Welcome! You have lots of support here as have ITIS, AlmostAthiest, Kwintestel, and many others who got their mates to "see the truth of the Truth(TM)"

My only words of wisdom: Be patient and gentle, loving and kind. Show your support of your wife in whatever you/she does. She's already thinking and acting on her thoughts and beliefs. I doubt it will take very much.

Question for Freedom Lover (Mrs ITIS)

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