Getting Deinstitutionalised

by Satanus 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  Satanus

  People cry about the general breakdown of society. I think that what is really happening is that institutions are being broken down. For examples: marriage, family, traditional family roles, churches, traditional 'morals'.

  People released from institutions generally feel lost. They are used to being led in how they should feel, think, and act. They had no need to take responsibility for themselves. Now, they have to do their own thinking, support themselves, define their own standards, set their own goals. Many can't and fall by the wayside into isolation, merely existing. The popular media does fill the hole to a large extent. It is a new institutional form, although not as in your face as the old ones.

  Comments?

  S
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  under74

  I disagree. I would say the traditions you mentioned haven't broken down at all. They've always been broken down. People are just more likely to say it broke down today.

  It's too simplistic to say the breakdown of society has to do with this or that....and who says it's breaking down? Ancient Greeks said the same about society that people say now.

  If it is breaking down I would put some blame on the powers that be. They are an example so when they (government & corporations) cheat, lie and steal....and then the media doesn't call it like it is, it tends to make it okay for others. This isn't to say I don't think personal responsibility doesn't apply--it does. But when a culture is developed letting all this slide, what can you expect?
• 

  Satanus

  Bet you thought that i was in an institution, didn't you? Heh heh. I was. I was raised as a jw in the wt institution, grew up in a family w a mother and father who were married (unhappily). I have left behind both of those institutions.

  S
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  Sunnygal41

  LMAO..............okay, ya got me! Dude..........that was a mean thing to do to an ole "hippy lady" like me...........but, I do feel that we are all being deinstitutionalized, although on a higher level..........all of life is evolving physically and spiritually..........ever do any research on the Mayan Calendar and their 2012 date? Well the Mayans were a highly skilled, mathematically advanced race of people, who basically were time travelers. I strongly recommend the book by Jose Arguelles...........The Mayan Factor.

  Terri
• 

  Satanus

  under74

  I'm not saying that society is breaking down. I am saying that a breakdown of institutions is taking place. That is a fairly general statement. This is presented as societal breakdown. But, the trend is towards more personal responsibility. As people grapple w this transfer and learn to deal w the issues, then it isn't a breakdown so much as a change in society.

  S
• 

  Satanus

  Terri

  all of life is evolving physically and spiritually

  With that, i agree. I have read about 2012 in the mayan calendar background, and disagree w it. I don't think that 2012 will be special.

  S
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  satanus,

  nicely written.

  i agree. i think these institutions are breaking down more so in the 21st century than at the beginning of the 20th century. i think people are breaking down within these institutions, and that's what we are seeing. there are also larger auspice institutions that envelope these smaller ones that are falling apart. like for many on this board, marriage was part of being a JW . you got married so you could screw each other, and sometimes you loved each other too. but often, so often, it was for the wrong reasons. but the WTS could not be wrong, and so we did what we did, and thought what we thought.

  leaving the WTS has been huge for me. i dropped that institution and so many of the institutions that they supported. i have basically dropped and remade all of my morals as per my new worldview. even very basic ones like murder and theft. i had to ask: "why should i not kill fellow humans?" the answer is obvious. but this time, the moral does not come from god, or an institution. it comes from within myself, and conveniently fits with the morals of society.

  one institution that i am having a hard time with in my metamorphosis is government. i have ended up as a kind of anarchist that is not too concerned about the fact that my taxes pay for a police force and basic health care. i would rather take care of myself in my immediate community. but no one else in my immediate community gives a crap because they are unquestionably comforted with the idea of belonging. of being a "Canadian".

  it seems so arbitrary to me, that our government, the white man, comes here to north America, commits a genocide against the natives, and just claims the land for themselves. why? just because they could. no other substantial reason. and then they chop it up and sell it back to other humans who do not have the same fire power as they do. now, all the land is annexed off. i can't just go out and walk to a piece of land that is not in use, and say: "this is my land. Joshuania . i take it because my forefathers took it." i can't do that, because it's *their land* now. they *own* it. through sheer blood, of course. but there is NO DIFFERENCE. the land is there whether some institution *says* it owns it. i say: "f*ck you institution. land is land."

  but nothing will ever come of this. why? because they have many men, with guns, ready to stamp someone like me out. just like when they first came here. we are not human in the true sense, IMO.

  institutions? a bunch of apes with rules.

  morals? the thoughts of apes.

  TS
• 

  Satanus

  tetra

  institutions? a bunch of apes with rules.

  So true. A means of controlling, keeping order and providing comfort/a feeling of security among them.

  S

  Ps, i think that govt/police is still needed to protect us from the less developed apes, bless their homes.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Actually Tetra - if you think about what you just said (its obvious why you shouldn't kill) it's actually not abvious at all.
  
  There are two principles at work here - the one you malign and use the to beat irrational believers with - subjective evaluation - and the other logic and fact. If I say you are good looking its subjective. If I say you are a man its fact. You just made a subjective statement about killing becasue factually killing people has a lot going for it. Subjectively we 'know' its wrong but the reality is we can't logically justify it - its just another construct of the human mind. The natural system you so love kills without thought or rational(sometimes just out of habit) and yet it is only humans who can evaluate whether that is good or bad.
  
  There is a whole world behind this - you always throw this in believers face because it is impossible to logically answer 'why is it better?' questions since logically subjective evaluations are just a side effect of consciousness and are not factual. Let me give you the example again. Is it logical to kill someone who is about to kill many others (remember the kill or not kill Hitler thread?) Logic can't answer that since it involves subjective evaluations that are fairly arbitrary - most would kill a young Hitler but would allow the seller of cigarrettes to live - either approach has no logical answer but definate subjective ones. At the end of the day it is not possible to say that it is obviously better not to kill except by a call to subjective thinking - the very thinking that says that religion is better than no religion, evolution is better than God. Really it doesn't matter what happens, logically.
  
  P.S. Disregard the above comments - they are purely subjective:)
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  Q,

  i agree with pretty much everything you said.

  the difference between killing God, and killing a fellow ape is a real difference, however. if god has never existed, or does not currently exist, then killing him is just a shedding of belief. but to kill a fellow human, is a concrete action that is measurable.

  would i kill hitler? you're right, it's a subjective thing. but still, not as subjective as belief in god, i'm sorry.

  TS