Is the Bible both true and false?

by Narkissos 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Narkissos

  Or, neither true nor false?

  *Shamelessly plagiarising UnDisfellowshipped's threads for not being able to respond unilaterally to any of them as he seems to wish.*

  First remark: the Bible is a (fortuitous or providential) collection of texts with different perspectives on most issues; so you can bet that about any sentence starting with "the Bible teaches / says etc." is dead wrong. From that point of view the question whether "it is true or false" is impossible per se.

  Second remark: true or false to what? (1) 21st century science? (2) Ancient history? (3) Literary aesthetics? (4) Contemporary religious experience and/or philosophical thought? (5) Timeless metaphysical truth?

  My provisional answers in a nutshell:

  # 1: generally false but this is hardly a flaw imo.

  # 2: sometimes true, most often false: a lot of short stories reflect traditions which may have some historical truth behind, although it is hardly recognisable; the great narratives (e.g. Samuel-Kings, Chronicles, Acts) on the other hand generally reflect a deliberate distortion of facts for the sake of a politico-theological agenda.

  # 3: it's not about "true and false" anymore really, but a large part of the Biblical narrative and poetry stands out as remarkable literature when compared to other writings of the same period and area.

  # 4: the Bible collection offers a unique outlook into the history of religious ideas between the 6th century BC and early 2nd century AD -- despite important lacunae which can be filled with non-Biblical literature. Most of it (including the historical distortions in # 2) reflect the sincere belief of its authors and their community.

  # 5: who can tell? However its inspirational force, for the best and the worst, is hardly questionable I think.
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  Sam the Man

  Is the Bible true? False.

  Is the Bible False? True.

  I guess the Bible is both true and false!
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  Hellrider

  # 2: sometimes true, most often false: a lot of short stories reflect traditions which may have some historical truth behind, although it is hardly recognisable; the great narratives (e.g. Samuel-Kings, Chronicles, Acts) on the other hand generally reflect a deliberate distortion of facts for the sake of a politico-theological agenda.

  I didn`t know that. Do you have any examples?
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  jgnat

  I groaned when I saw the title of this thread. My brain don't work too good on Sunday night. I like this:

  a large part of the Biblical narrative and poetry stands out as remarkable literature when compared to other writings of the same period and area

  Hellrider, one example I can think of from the historical television I have watched over the years, is contemporary Kingly accounts of battles over the same time period. It seems that the surrounding neighbours thought they won too. This might be a frequent fault of Kings. Found one. Archealogical discoveries at at Tel Megiddo. It seems the bible chronology might be off. http://home.gwu.edu/~ehcline/NYTarticle2.html
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  inquirer

  ^^^ Regarding topic name above ^^^
  
  There are 2 billion Christians in the world (with the number on a larage increase in Asia -- particularly countries like China where there is 50 million Christians) it's very likely that the Bible is true. I mean it's 2 thirds of the population. LOL! I'd place my bets on a book like that! Wouldn't you? :D
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  # 2: sometimes true, most often false: a lot of short stories reflect traditions which may have some historical truth behind, although it is hardly recognisable; the great narratives (e.g. Samuel-Kings, Chronicles, Acts) on the other hand generally reflect a deliberate distortion of facts for the sake of a politico-theological agenda.

  I didn`t know that. Do you have any examples?

  Hi Hellrider Take the books of Chronicles for example. They were written many years after the return from
  Babylon and the rebuilding of the Temple with an apparent aim to legitimize the theocracy of the time (Persians placed Zerubbabel as governor......and Joshua was the chosen high priest) That Chronicles stresses the theocracy is seen by the massive emphasis it places on the genealogies of Judah and Levi. (100 verses to Judah alone : more than all the other tribes combined). It shows a blood connection for Zerubbabel and Joshua with the divinely instituted lines from the past. Also in
  retelling the "history" of the kings of Judah, several of the unfavourable details
  found in the books of Samuel and Kings are changed/excluded. Jehoshaphat removed the
  all the high places according to the Chronicler, but not according to Kings. And I'm sure
  more versed people can give you even more details to consider.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  There are 2 billion Christians in the world (with the number on a larage increase in Asia -- particularly countries like China where there is 50 million Christians) it's very likely that the Bible is true. I mean it's 2 thirds of the population. LOL! I'd place my bets on a book like that! Wouldn't you? :D

  not at all.

  it is entirely possible for 2 billion people to be wrong.

  truth does not come in numbers.

  there's 1.3 billion muslims. it doesn't make their brand of magical thinking right either.

  the country of germany has a lot of people. they were also a bunch of nazis at one time too.

  TS
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  trevor

  The bible is a very contradictory book which manages to be right and wrong at the same time.

  Understanding women has helped me to understand the Bible!
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  Narkissos

  Hellrider,

  I meant all the major segments and connections which constitute the big meta-narrative as is taught in Sunday school (for instance).

  You know, the sequence Creation-Flood-Patriarchs-Egypt-Exodus-Conquest-Judges-Monarchy-Division-Exile-Return in the OT; or Jesus-Pentecost-Gentile Mission in Acts. You can count very little of that to be historical, on the other hand it reflects a clear attempt at reshaping history according to a current theology.

  For instance, Deuteronomism (Samuel - Kings) retrojects the core of Josiah's reform onto "Moses"' foundational time: making the traditional religion of Israel (including many sanctuaries, for instance) appear, retrospectively, as disobedience or apostasy from Moses. From this later perspective it decerns approval or disapproval on the past kings.

  The Chronicler doesn't find this consistent enough. Manasseh was a "bad" king, why did he reign so long? Of course, he repented.

  The author of Acts consistently tones down the issues and conflicts of early Christianity. His "Paul" doesn't sound like the author of the Pauline epistles. His "James" (popping up from nowhere) is incredibly yielding when you compare to the issue in Galatians.

  Those are just a few samples of a pretty consistent phenomenon. He who controls the past, controls the future. This didn't start with the Bible but the Bible is a fascinating study field for this.
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  Leolaia

  For instance, Deuteronomism (Samuel - Kings) retrojects the core of Josiah's reform onto "Moses"' foundational time: making the traditional religion of Israel (including many sanctuaries, for instance) appear, retrospectively, as disobedience or apostasy from Moses.

  Very nice example you've chosen here, because such apostasy from "Moses" (from the point of view of Deuteronomy, lit. the "Second Law", ch. 12) is actually legislated by "Moses" in the JE law-code, e.g. Exodus 20:24-26, and the historical books frequently mention faithful worshippers of Yahweh as innocently setting up such sanctuaries without censure, as if the other Mosaic law did not exist (e.g. 1 Samuel 9:12-14, 10:3-5, 1 Kings 18:30, etc.). Similarly, Deuteronomy 16:22 forbids the erection of masseboth (standing stones), and even says that Yahweh "hates" them, yet Isaiah 19:19 (written before Deuteronomy) has a positive attitude towards them (by mentioning them as a symbol of true worship), and they are also mentioned positively in Genesis 28:18-22, 35:14-15, Joshua 4:1-9, 24:21-24, and even Moses built an altar with twelve masseboth to symbolize his law covenant with Yahweh (Exodus 24:3-4).

  Another example is the judicature instituted by Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 19:8-11) which is retrojected to the age of Moses in Deuteronomy 17:8-13, 19:17 which only presupposes the existence of the tribunal.