by vitty 8 Replies latest jw friends
I was listening to the God channel yesterday and was really surprised to hear the speaker talk of the original sin "sex" between Adam and Eve.
I thought only the catholics believed that, how do christians come to that conclusion.?
I know there are christians on this board so if you can answer it, Im very interested in it.
Is it only the JWs who believe it was disobedience ?
well I know there are two types of sin... mortal sin and Venial sin...
Mortal sin...
There's three basic components to a mortal sin:
1) Grave matter -- basically you've done something that is very bad. Essentially, you've broken one of the 10 commandments.
2) Full knowledge -- you knew that it was a sin of grave matter.
3) Full consent -- you committed the sin of your own free will. That is, you could have realistically chosen not to.
Venial Sin is not as bad as mortal sin
Evanescence
they were not married...
This is not the official Catholic belief either.
How could "sex" have been a sin, when God told Adam and Eve they had to "be fruitful and multiply"?
Two types of sin? A sin is a sin.
Genesis 1--2:4a, first creation account: after the animals, man and woman appear together, childbearing is a divine blessing. No "fall" here.
Genesis 2:4b--3, second creation account, different sequence: Yhwh creates (an apparently sexless or androgynous) "man," then the animals, then woman (out of the former "man"); man acquires knowledge through the serpent and the woman; only then are sex and childbearing explicitly mentioned (the former as a result of knowledge, they saw they were naked; the latter as a result of Yhwh's curse).
Two completely different stories: the second account cannot be read as the continuation of the first (2:4 starts again from the beginning).
As to woman as the mediator of knowledge to man (a theme which will be developed in Gnostic writings), see Gilgamesh I:
Then Shamhat saw him--a primitive,
a savage fellow from the depths of the wilderness!
"That is he, Shamhat! Release your clenched arms,
expose your sex so he can take in your voluptuousness.
Do not be restrained--take his energy!
When he sees you he will draw near to you.
Spread out your robe so he can lie upon you,
and perform for this primitive the task of womankind!
His animals, who grew up in his wilderness, will become alien to him,
and his lust will groan over you."
Shamhat unclutched her bosom, exposed her sex, and he took in her voluptuousness.
She was not restrained, but took his energy.
She spread out her robe and he lay upon her,
she performed for the primitive the task of womankind.
His lust groaned over her;
for six days and seven nights Enkidu stayed aroused,
and had intercourse with the harlot
until he was sated with her charms.
But when he turned his attention to his animals,
the gazelles saw Enkidu and darted off,
the wild animals distanced themselves from his body.
Enkidu ... his utterly depleted(?) body,
his knees that wanted to go off with his animals went rigid;
Enkidu was diminished, his running was not as before.
But then he drew himself up, for his understanding had broadened.
Turning around, he sat down at the harlot's feet,
gazing into her face, his ears attentive as the harlot spoke.
The harlot said to Enkidu:
"You are beautiful," Enkidu, you are become like a god.
Why do you gallop around the wilderness with the wild beasts?
Come, let me bring you into Uruk-Haven,
to the Holy Temple, the residence of Anu and Ishtar,
the place of Gilgamesh, who is wise to perfection,
but who struts his power over the people like a wild bull."
What she kept saying found favor with him.
Becoming aware of himself, he sought a friend.
Disobedience, sin, isn't it just semantics?
Both imply wrong doing. I think it's just two religions using different terminology because they labell things somewhat differently. But I see the essential meaning as the same.
That quote from gilgamesh was interesting. I've never read that. Are you gnostic Narkissos?
well I know there are two types of sin... mortal sin and Venial sin...
oooooh yeah, they both sound pretty hot to me!!!
Hi dezpbem,
You can read the ancient Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh, which is older than the Genesis story and reflects only part of its tradition (see especially the Flood in tablet XI) here: http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/
And, no, I am not a Gnostic (or neo-Gnostic), but I do think Gnosticism is, among other things, an essential part of the puzzle of Christian origins. Here is an interesting site: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
