Is disfellowshipping bad?

by Simon 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LittleToe

  Kate:

  Being "debarred" as you say from this "support group" you make it sound as if it was just done to the person rather than an action taken by the person which lead up to the "debarment". So which comes first Ross the "debarment" or the behavior which lead to the "debarment"?

  I don't believe that I implied any such thing. I concur that deletions are in some measure as a result of some kind of activity on the part of the one barred, and I don't intend to be drawn on the justice of such actions (see rule 11).

  Also the reference to a person having "psychological consequences" to their deletion from JWD I would have to say "pa-hooey"........a big "pa-hooey" at that! I've yet to see where these deleted ones have NOT gone to one of the many other sites and somehow gotten along with the (rough) crowd over there just fine. And IMHO not a crowd most (shall I use the word) sensitive people would care to hang with.

  Do you have empirical evidence to support such an astute psychological assessment? You might be surprised how little it takes to push someone over the edge. Just this afternoon I was involved in admitting a patient into our Acute Psychiatric Unit, due to a psychotic episode that started over something very simple.

  Did you personally follow up every case to see the emotional ramifications upon their lives, or merely note the backlash expressed at another venue? Did they really appear to be happy bunnies in the midst of the "rough crowd"?

  IMNTBHO I would have to inject that in most cases I have felt that Simon was too easy on people and gave them way too many chances to straighten up before he finally got so pissed and rightly so and booted them. Once a person has made you so angry you've raised your voice or worse at them you've lost the battle or so it's been my experience when dealing with children.

  I'm afraid I'm in not position to address this statement, as I'm not privvy to that information. I will comment on the fact that you are talking about dealing with adults, not children, though. You might be able to tell a child to go to their room, but an adult is a distinctly different proposition, especially if they have experienced emotional damage at the hands of a cult.

  If it were my unilateral decision they would be given one warning then be booted, maybe not permanently the first time but definitely permanent the second time. Gawd if I was only THE Queen!

  That sounds like an interesting procedure. Is there any flexibility in it for unusual cases, or would everyone get the "second strike and you're out" treatment? I'm sure that you're well aware that human-beings aren't machines. Their reactions to given situations will vary, and some have a greater capacity to pick themselves up and dust themselves off, than others.

  Also have you noticed that the list of those deleted is very short in comparison with those who manage to post here and go by the forum guidelines?

  I'm sorry, but I personally don't think that's a valid comparison. As I've often been known to say; you can make statistics say anything. The WTS does it effectively and I'm sure they would declare that the number of disfellowshippings are minor in comparison to the number being baptised

  [NB: By that comment I would also add that this is merely my personal opinion, and by my comments I'm not intending to imply that deletions are comparable to disfellowshiipings.]

  There are always those who choose to push the limits and there are always consequences to pay for it everywhere in society and on the 'Net on every discussion board I've been to there are rules and consequences to breaking them.

  Agreed.

  It's really no biggy.

  On that we'll have to agree to disagree

  Have you been banned, to know what it feels like? I haven't, but I'm informed that the resultant feelings vary from frustration through grief to highly aroused angry states.

  Just my .02 Ross and fwiw I apologize I'll be gone today but will look for your reply when I get back.

  No worries. My initial comments were only my 2p, too. I didn't expect to get drawn into a discussion on the subject, though I'm happy to talk through the subject and its potential ramifications. Sounding off of one another is a good way of airing the issues, and I'm glad that Simon has given us the opportunity

  Have a great day
• 

  mouthy

  I just feel bad to lose the ones that are gone. But as you all state - it is the owners right to do what he thinks ......I do miss em though... But Simon this site has help hundreds, not even those who post on board.Others !!!Thanks!!!! But I thought Little Toe said it nicely. my 2 cents
• 

  Angharad

  In the case of someone who is recovering from cult expulsion there are emotional issues that raise the stakes. Being debarred from communication, with those who an individual thought of as a support network in the absence of former family and friends, can have psychological consequences. For some this goes beyond mere frustration, and reinforces morbid feelings of rejection.

  I understand what you are saying Ross, but I disagree when someone is deleted from the forum they are not barred from communicating with friends. Which is what happens with disfellowshipping, how many people have gone straight over to one of the other Exjws board and continued interacting with the same people over there?

  This would be the basis of my reservation against using permanent deletion in any but the most extreme of cases. I completely acknowledge that in some cases it is entirely justified (

  Contrary to what a lot of people like to shout, it takes a lot to get yourself permanently deleted from this forum. Some people have been given chance after chance and numerous warnings to follow the guidelines, but then act like it was totally unexpected when we finally say enough is enough. In the past people have been timed out and then come back and within a short time are doing exactly the same things again, how long should that go on? It would get to the stage where they would get the digs in and know that they will be back and able to do it again in 24/48 hours etc Why should we have to put up with this sort of behaviour continually.

  Yes if someone is obviously having a bad day and posts something out of character we would PM asking them to tone things down, and then time them out if they continued, but there is a world of difference between them and someone who has been deliberately disruptive and insulting and made it their mission to get themselves deleted (quite often going bragging about it to the elsewhere), why should we let them back on just to enable them to just do it again?

  They need to realize the real picture. This site is meant to help ones discover the truth about the watchtower society and to help them in the process of leaving that organization.

  Exactly, some people seem to want to change the forum to suit their own purposes, they have got past the whole JW experience and want to move on and just use it as a social club. Great ! moving past JW issues is what we are all aiming for, and while obviously the social side is important the forum is not going to change in its main purpose, there are always going to be people that need the support and JW discussions and that is what we are here for. If that bores some people then its tough and their problem, that is what the site is about.

  To use it for any other means especially for personal vendetta's is selfish and sadly these ones have lost the whole point of this site being in existence.

  Yes its very sad and selfish, especially when at the same time these people are claiming to be doing this for the good of the site and newbies. How can making multiple accounts and posting purely disruptive and insulting things be for the good of the site and helpful to newly exiting people.
• 

  minimus

  Ang, since you tell us what the purpose of the site is, might I say that making posts regarding inflammatory political issues goes against the very purpose of this site?
• 

  LittleToe

  Ang:

  I understand what you are saying Ross, but I disagree when someone is deleted from the forum they are not barred from communicating with friends. Which is what happens with disfellowshipping, how many people have gone straight over to one of the other Exjws board and continued interacting with the same people over there?

  I wasn't the one who drew the disfellowshipping comparison. I merely commented on the effect that being barred has on the emotionally injured, as an area of discussion that hadn't been addressed.

  Contrary to what a lot of people like to shout, it takes a lot to get yourself permanently deleted from this forum. Some people have been given chance after chance and numerous warnings to follow the guidelines, but then act like it was totally unexpected when we finally say enough is enough. In the past people have been timed out and then come back and within a short time are doing exactly the same things again, how long should that go on? It would get to the stage where they would get the digs in and know that they will be back and able to do it again in 24/48 hours etc Why should we have to put up with this sort of behaviour continually.

  To start with I have to concede that I'm blithely unaware of many of the cases of deletions on the board. As I said to Kate, I'm not privvy to that information. On that basis I have little information to judge the accuracy of those statements (that's not an accusation of lying, btw - I'm simply stating that I'm not in a position to be able to challenge the basis of your comments).

  I do know that a number that were in regular contact with me appeared genuinely surprised to be deleted. I can't comment further as I haven't got both sides of the story, and I don't like making judgements in that kind of a situation.

  I can't add anything more to that side of the discussion, and so happily leave it alone. I'm here to discuss topics of the day, not hurt the feelings of people I consider friends.
• 

  greendawn

  Disfel/ing should be reserved for the most serious transgressions and not imposed for all sorts of minor violations.
  
  Serious misdeeds like adultery or stealing large amounts of money especially from someone poor, but then again it's unlikely that people unrepentently committing these things would have the nerve to appear in a group that strongly disapproves of such practices, with or without an official disfel/ing policy.
  
  Disfel/ing is first and foremost a political weapon to suppress dissent within the jw ranks. After all the GB don't love the R&F enough to want to keep them in a pure state.
• 

  Billygoat

  Disfel/ing is first and foremost a political weapon to suppress dissent within the jw ranks. After all the GB don't love the R&F enough to want to keep them in a pure state.

  *standing ovation*
• 

  Angharad

  Ang, since you tell us what the purpose of the site is, might I say that making posts regarding inflammatory political issues goes against the very purpose of this site?

  Ah Minimus, how predictable You have misunderstood what I was saying, what I meant was that it seems sometimes there are some that have moved on from JW issues, and seem frustrated when a newer person arrives and asks the same questions that have been discussed quite a few times before - they would rather use the forum like a chat room with their small group of friends. Please note that I have used the words SOME and SOMETIMES above
• 

  Jacen_Solo

  I thought by the title that this thread was about disfellowshipping from the Jehovahs Witnesses.

  Why would so many be angry about not being able to post to a forum? Just move on with your life and find somewhere else. I used to post on a consumer board (clark howard's board) but then it just got so nasty that I said "to he** with it" and went elsewhere. Then after checking back in not long ago I found that the forum had went through many deletions and the old uglies were still coming back to slam everyone. Ridiculous!

  I was disfellowshipped, and denied a normal relationship with my family. I can't walk into a Kingdom Hall and start debating the elder giving the public talk. There's rules and laws that prevent me from doing that, and if the police were to have to come escort me out for doing so I'd not be justified in complaining. What I can do is learn about the Jehovahs Witnesses and then use that information to talk to my family when possible, and hope they find their own way out.

  That's just my two cents.

  Robert.
• 

  peggy

  First of all, IMO, disfellowshiping is bad, in "the contest for which we know it"! NOW if you want to talk about deleting ones from this forum, then "say it like it is". Is deleting "ones from this forum bad"? Say what you mean and mean what you say! This is a discussion board. At times it has become heated! Political views are shared, tempers flare! I think that Mimimus made a good point! Yet he was put down for it. The complaint was made that some were sending rude, even violent e-mails. Put your personal filter on........and delete comments on this board, but not people!

  Peg