Some high level Bethelites got hounded, reviled and thrown out of the HQ in the early 1980's precisely because they wanted to study the Bible without using the WT magazines. That shows clearly that they are a sect they have to tightly control info to maintain authority.
Post JW I have been studying the Bible also examining interpretations from other serious non cultish Christian religions, also exchanged ideas on the net.
It's important to push out all the strange outlandish jw religous ideas and all the terrible spiritual poison concealed inside them. These people are false prophets and beares of a gospel alien to the apostolic one and as such they are under curse as are all those accepting them.
Bible reading without the WT filter
by watch the tower 36 Replies latest watchtower bible
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greendawn
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Terry
You know even though I think the WT doctrine is mostly all garbage now, I still do believe that the Bible is inspired from our creator. The flaw in my understanding of it in the past was because I was interpreting it through the filter of the WTS.
What you have here, if you will only step back and give it a hard look, is a PRESUPPOSITION.
There is a "given" you won't (or haven't) examine which is the hidden hook the worm is wriggling around when you went to feed.
You simply cannot BEGIN by ASSUMING something which requires a great deal of proving: "..the Bible is inspired from our creator."
That is the real flaw in your understanding and not the FILTER from any religious group.
You cannot let this just slide by.
Mormon's just start out ACCEPTING the Book of Mormon as the inspired word of their creator. The Muslims just start out accepting the Koran as the inspired word of their creator. And so on. What do you think the FLAW in their understanding is?
The definition of insanity is this: continuing to do the same thing and expect a different result.
That is your insanity here. (We all did it, don't feel too bad.)
You are dealing with an assumption that has been fed to you in your breastmilk and through your toddler years and into adulthood because it permeates our society: THE BIBLE is a really big deal. You have never honestly examined the issue; you just accepted it without much of an argument.
I have to tell you, it will be really eye-opening when you do! It shocked the hell out of me. But, an intelligent and honest searching inquiry will free you at last from the superstition that infects most people on this planet.
Don't continue to inflict wounds to your rational mind by avoiding the elephant in the room. GET RID OF YOUR PRESUPPOSITION.
Start with an HONEST PREMISE.
You can't start an honest premise by swallowing the camel whole. Strip away the "givens" that are getting a free ride past your rational mind's burglar alarm system.
Ask this, instead:
1.How can I honestly test any book reputed to be of divine origin as to any significant proof of supernatural authorship? What do critics of such books produce by way of counter-proof and evidence?
2.Am I emotionally inclined to believe one side rather than the other and will this sway my decisions?
3.Do I give both sides of these issues equal chance to offer their case, or, do I look for ways to support my presuppositions and put down the uncomfortable arguments which disturb my world view?
The majority of people living on planet earth today are not Christian. Of the ones who are, NONE agree on what exactly it is the Bible says and what it really means. Even within Christianity the divisions resulting from confusions and opinions about simple texts seems to indicate there are NO SIMPLE TRUTHS to agree on!
Additionally, the actual history of the putting-together of this so-called "book" (actually little books) demonstrates there are too many political and fanatical hands it has passed through with axes to grind for selfish purposes not to have tainted the choices/omissions and subsequent wordings.
FINALLY, if you are going to bet your life on something, shouldn't it be something solid? The language of the Bible is so dependant of transiliteration of copied language further redacted from previous language translated from no-longer-existing texts THERE IS NO WAY POSSIBLE to settle an argument with confidence as to ORIGINAL INTENT.
You can't bet your life, your belief, your orthodoxy confidently on something so hodge-podge as a cut and paste much-handled proof text filtered through thousands of years of factions fully intent on making it come out THEIR way for their own gain.
Please, give this a rethink; you'll be glad you did.
Terry
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Terry
I'll repost here something I posted previously because it seems to fit:
Think of it this way....
Without opinions between people which end up as differences (leading to arguments) there would be no need to CONSULT a written document that purports to "settle" an issue of opinion.
ALL, that's right, ALL religious writings stem from different opinions, arguments and efforts to PROVE oneself right by pointing to a final source authority.
Even a Dictionary is a snapshot in time, a freezframe, if you will of the prevalent OPINION as to proper use of words in a given language.
The Bible is quite a case study.
Look at the Bible from the point of view of the Jewish religion. Any Rabbi will tell you: "All translations are lies." This means, to them, when you leave the language the scripture was written in you leave the "actual" text and depart into opinion and human judgement.
The Jews stopped speaking Hebrew and Aramaic generally just before the time of Jesus. There was panic in the priesthood! A great effort was made to bring back the source authority so that the overlords of religion (Priesthood) could continue to wield the orthodoxy and the power to persuade and PROVE their authority.
The SEPTUIGENT was a transition from the Hebrew and Aramaic into Greek. It was a scholarly OPINION, you might say.
The followers of Jesus probably didn't actually write anything down at all!
Word of mouth, storytelling, exaggerations, popular mythos, imagination and finally arguments and differences of opinion CAUSED the need for these stories about Jesus and his ministry to be written down. A source authority was needed to settle differences of opinion.
When the CHURCH (Catholic and Roman) needed to bring factions of Christians together to empower themselves for orthodoxy it was impossible because too many competing ideas, opinions and theories were floating around!
That is when the OFFICIAL bible canon was undertaken. Even that was OPINION.
From that point in time that official and authorized texts have changed over and over and over again AS NEEDED.
The Watchtower Society is not the first and not the last religious group who wants things THEIR OWN WAY. It is much easier to have things your own way when every word and every phrase and sentence conform to your point of view.
THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION is just another of man's opinions about something nobody will ever really know (and cannot know) about things which are fanciful in the first place.
As a practical matter, no man's opinion about your life is as important as your own. Even if that opinion is represented to be from a deity it is just an opinion that it is from a deity.
T.
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JamesThomas
I think the WT doctrine is mostly all garbage now, I still do believe that the Bible is inspired from our creator.
WTT, since the Wt doctrine is based on the same "belief that the Bible is inspired from our creator", what makes you so certain you have not simply exchanged your past "filter" for a new one of a slightly lighter shade?
Have you ever actually met with life without any beliefs, interpretations, or judgments at all? What is reality when void of all religious beliefs and mental constructs of what we believe ourselves to be?
j
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DannyHaszard
The 10th chapter of John is a biggie 10:16 is the "other sheep" start form verse 1 JC is obviously talking about the conversion of the gentiles not two classes of people
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watch the tower
Have you ever actually met with life without any beliefs, interpretations, or judgments at all?
Yes. That is exactly how I have approached life after dismissing the WT mentality.
What is reality when void of all religious beliefs and mental constructs of what we believe ourselves to be?
Reality when void of religious beliefs and mental constructs is unconditional love for others. That is all that's left and all that really matters. Funny thing, that is exactly what the theme of the Bible is, when you read it without any of those pre-conditioned mental constructs. (contrary to the WT propaganda the theme of the Bible is not the kingdom)
Terry brought up a bunch of technical points regarding the need to examine the validity of the Bible as an inspired source. You are assuming that we blindly assume the Bible to be inspired from God from the get-go. There is much more that is involved than presumption, at least for me, in believing the inspired nature of the scriptures. The details of which is for another thread for another day. FYI, I have read the other "holy books" that you have mentioned as well. Those are not even close.
To put it simply, if there exists a set of text on the face of this planet that has the ability to enable you to think on a higher level, give you peace of mind, make you a better person, understand the nature of our origin and future, establish a relationship with our Creator and at the same time has been twisted, manipulated, misrepresented, banned, ridiculed, criticized...etc. I would be inclined to think that there just may be...may be something to it.
It has changed my view of the world and my future for the better. That's all the proof I need.
If you have no idea what I am talking about, maybe you haven't given it a chance yet?
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ackack
Another presupposition in here is "the Bible". You are asuming the whole Bible to be inspired. Its easy to view to that way, but its not a terrible accurate way to look at it.
I think at some point we have to say, what about this book? what about this passage? what is inspiration? does inspiration mean inerrency?
The question I always ask myself, is what would it take for me to NOT believe in something? If the answer is, "nothing could change my mind!" then that belief is not based upon fact or reason. Therefore its unteachable to others.
ackack
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AK - Jeff
Good for you WTT.
I had the same experience, and am still having it. I use many translations, but enjoy the NIV. I never read the NWT as I consider it manipulated to secure doctrine.
I started with the book of John and then read the other gospels. I agree with the basic statements made here.
- A relationship with Jesus
- Love God
- Love neighbor.
Jeff [of the wonderful feeling when getting the filters off class]
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ackack
Sorry, just another thought. But one example of this sort of thing for me is with the WT contention that Matthew was written first. Why? They use the catholic tradition (funny, how these men were so demon possessed but could snap out of it long enough to write something true down).
I look at the arguments for Matthewian priority and funny enough, they are flimsy. Markian priority is way more sensible. Does this change how I view the gospels? Does it change how I view Matthew? Sure it does!
It always bothered me that Matthew got the Jesus riding on two animal thing so very wrong. I always wondered, whats wrong with this guy! But understanding that Matthew wrote later and wasn't very smart and got stuff wrong, helped me to weight that gospel (say compared to Luke, which has much better writing). Just one thought.
There are so many assumptions we make. Tough to challenge them all. But I guess when you come outta the WTBTS, you can't help it. :)
ackack
