Since it can be understood that spending 50 hours a month in preaching and meeting atttendance does not constitute acceptance with God what are the "works" talked about in the scripture where it says "faith without works is dead."? The WT always identifies them as meeting attendance, service and etc.
WHAT ARE THESE "WORKS?" NEEDED FOR FAITH?
by stillAwitness 6 Replies latest watchtower bible
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coffee_black
The works are the result of faith.... the evidence that faith exists. It is not a specific set of required activities. Faith in Christ changes the person from within...producing the "fruitage of the spirit"... the result of the Holy Spirt residing in the believer. Works are the natural outcome...not because one is required to...but because one wants to.
Jesus said "I will write my law upon your heart"....so obedience comes from within, out of one's relationship with God, as opposed to being enforced or measured by others.
Coffee
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peacefulpete
"Works" as used in james and G.matthew refer to Jewish works of Law. These authors sharply disagreed with Pauline Christians in this matter.
The modern spin, that "real" faith naturally manifests itself as works ignores the context of these verses and wrongly presumes these writers meant decency and selflessness by "works". The WT notion that faith is proven by outward demonstration would be deemed fleshly thinking by Paul. From Paul's standpoint only humans needed visible evidence to see the faith in others, God knows who has faith because he put it there.
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Terry
This is one of those circular arguments that passed for cool wisdom back in the old days.
If you save your life you lose it and if you lose your life you save it---that sort of contortion.
Baptists do it better. They tell you, "Once saved; always saved". But, if you point out a "saved" person who is obviously a living asshole they will counter with "Oh, well he was never saved in the first place."
You can't confuse manipulated sentences with rubbery words and floating contexts with ACTUAL STATEMENTS of information.
The Bible contains nothing actually of a factual and useful nature; mostly word games.
Terry
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Qcmbr
My list.
1/Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins
2/Receive Baptism of Fire By Holy Spirit - given by laying on of hands.
3/Keep sacrament in remembrance of Jesus
4/Pray continually to God in the name of Jesus
5/Meet together often to uplift and edify each other.
6/Heal the sick and afflicted.
7/Spread the gospel with all who will hear.
8/Love Your neighbour.
9/Love God.
10/Tithing.
11/Fasting.
12/Charity.
13/Baptism for the dead.
14/No contention and anger with each other.
15/No lustful thoughts.
16/Keep ten commandments.
17/Represent Saviour in all you do and say. -
Narkissos
I would say the Epistle of James reflects a different kind of anti-Paulinism than the Gospel of Matthew: it doesn't focus on the ritual Law anymore but on moral issues such as love, mercy, social justice and impartiality. It does build on Jewish-Christian teachings very similar to the Sermon of the Mount (interestingly, not ascribing them to Jesus) but uses them critically within the framework of the post-Pauline churches. Cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/100191/1727819/post.ashx#1727819 (this whole thread on "grace" is very interesting to read).
Ironically, the kind of JW "works" (mainly preaching, teaching and arguing for the "right" doctrine) is exactly what the author of EpJames denounces as the wrong kind of "faith," which expresses in words only and nurtures strife instead of changing hearts and lives (cf. chapter 3).
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peacefulpete
Narkissos, both G.Matt in that James broaden the definition of works of Law so as to make it appear all inclusive. I think it's clear the author of james was however still advocating the Law, praising it as the bench mark of morality. It may appear he was more concerned with moral issues thatn ritual but it seems to me this is because of the stawman argument he's using against Paulinism,( ie. implying that such Christians would let someone in need go hungry because of their disregarding the Law.)