by Pathofthorns 35 Replies latest jw friends
Women were to look nice, keep quiet, cook dinner, clean the house and give their husbands sex. They were not to speak out, to correct a man, to put forth their own opinions and especially not "teach" in the congregation.
'WERE'? This has changed?! When? Why wasn't I informed?!? Good grief, what was wrong wit' dat?!
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
And then the WTBTS doubles the indignity of rape by saying that the woman…was weak for not speaking up or screaming. Of course, the rapist was wrong - but so was she in their opinion.
The woman was actually raped twice in this instance. The second rape took place in the committee meeting. BOTH times her indoctrination caused her to feel shame. I imagine that the latter was worse than the first.
waiting
I quite agree with your statement
The Hebrew scriptures give a convoluted picture of sex. Sometimes loving, sometimes violent, even deadly, incest (grudging approved by God). Strange mixed messages.That whole bit about Lot and his daughters is very disturbing to me. I don’t like his offering up his daughters (I have two daughters myself and so I would have told the angels, ‘hey, fellas, I hope you guys got some kind of weapon with you or it’s going to be a long night for you!’) Also that bit about his having sex with his daughters is very disturbing also. I’ve heard the WTS rationalization and to me if falls flat.
The WTBTS should never have tried, let alone established, a principle to met out discipline for the victim - or to even be judges over the victim.
Seven
I was aware of waiting’s experiences with incest by means of her previous postings but I don’t remember you ever saying anything about your experience. Like Path I can only imagine how terrible an ordeal it was for you two ladies. I, too, was disturbed at reading these posts of yours. It makes me very sad to know that people I have become very fond of have suffered so much pain. My heart goes out to both of you. I am especially moved at cut to the heart with your statement: “Jehovah sees all and chose to turn his head. All alone he chose not to help me. I survived on my own.” This is the single greatest problem I have in my faith. It is a problem I wrestle with continuously. I have no answer. I only know that as a father I could not stand by and allow that to happen to a stranger let alone my daughter. But I know that Jehovah is a God of love. The paradox tears me apart at times. I don’t offer the following as justification or even an explanation but perhaps you may find something that will help. I saw my older daughter spank her son one day. She was not brutal by any means, however, but it just tore him up for his mother to spank and scold him. When she finished, she went off into her room and buried her face in her hands and cried. Unseen to her I cried too. I know what she felt because I had to spank her when she was a child.
I’m not saying that God punished you, no, never. But he allows terrible things to happen to us when he could prevent it. Why? Like I said before, I don’t really know but perhaps it’s because he has to, not as a lesson to angels as is suggested by the WTS, but as things needed for our personal development.
You also said:
There is something horribly wrong with a belief system that led me to feel I was hated by God and his people for something I never asked to happen-I agree with that completely.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Edited by - Frenchy on 6 October 2000 9:37:10
Frenchy and Path, Thank you for your comments. It's not easy responding to experiences like waiting and I have had. I never intended to share my little secret with anyone here, it just happened. I've always felt dirty and cheap and not worthy of anyone's love, following the rape. This is no longer the case. Therapy and the good friends I've found here has helped with the healing process. I questioned why believers must suffer if Jehovah is truly just. I hated God and wanted to hurt him in the only way possible-to curse him and deny his existance. This made me miserable beyond belief, and still does. He knows my heart and knows in spite of it all I still believe. I must learn to forgive as God has promised to forgive our sins. I'm working on it, hoping the light will drive the darkness away.
7 and Waiting....I have read all your posts on this subject....and I have felt totally overwhelmed. I felt that anything that I would say would somehow trivialize your pain.
I was wrong. I'm sorry. I should have said something before. Not saying anything makes it seem that I don't really care about the subject of incest or rape or its aftermath. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I have never personally suffered such total indignity....only the fringes. Being groped by a stranger at the beach when I was 12, and losing a job at 25 because I refused my boss's advances. Hardly a comparison, but I DO feel your pain....and it leaves me at a loss for words.
Please forgive me for not speaking up sooner.
(((((((7)))))))) ((((((waiting))))))
Red, Thank you for contributing to this thread. Don't be too hard on yourself for not jumping in sooner to comment. I know you care about both waiting and myself, your friendship is proof of that. We are all survivors here of some form of indignity or other, some overwhelming as you said
and difficult to discuss. Silence is the greatest ally the rapist has. Like waiting said, the more we talk about it the fewer places the rapist has to hide. There are so many like us out there who are finding the strength to speak out. Thanks for
helping. I think this thread could use a smile about now-
Seven
Hey y'all,
Rape and incest are despicable within themselves. The victim is perceived by themselves, and reinforced through society and the WTBTS as somehow "possibly" to directly responsible for another person's crime.
The shame is an unbelievable weight which never goes away. Never.
Thanks, Red. Victims aren't sorry that others haven't experienced being raped. I think they just want a voice.
waiting
Waiting and Seven,
I also had wanted to express my support and admiration for your courage and determination sooner than now. I wasn't really sure how it might be received. Although I recognize what a horrible and traumatic crime rape is, as a man (and also never having been a victim of rape) I probably cannot fully understand just what an enormous task it must be to recover and move on and embrace life and love afterwards.
When one adds the WT society crap reviewed on this post to that horrible experience, it is truly an injustice and is inexcusable on their part.
I must also say that there was a statement made earlier which I could not disagree with more:
I’m not saying that God punished you, no, never. But he allows terrible things to happen to us when he could prevent it. Why? Like I said before, I don’t really know but perhaps it’s because he has to, not as a lesson to angels as is suggested by the WTS, but as things needed for our personal development.
Edited by - AhHah on 7 October 2000 3:39:41
Edited by - AhHah on 7 October 2000 4:3:31
AhHa, I'm glad you chose to post in this thread. If you have time, visit the rape and recovery information page I provided a link to on the previous page. Thanks for your comments and I hope everyone can use the information they've read here to help themselves or somebody they know.
Seven
Seven,
Thanks for the reminder about the link. I clicked on the 'Chrsitianity' link from there and read "A Survivor's Prayer". It was so moving that I wept. I am sometimes overwhelmed when I think about all the trauma and injustice that so many suffer at the hands of others.
You and Waiting sharing this intense personal pain with us makes all of your other posts so much more beautiful and meaningful. Both of you, please be assured of my love, support and care.
Here is a small part of that beautiful prayer for all to enjoy:
My Father I know that You too feel not only their pain, but their frustration & mistrust. What has happened Lord should never have been. And Lord at times we blame You for this, or wonder why You didn't intercede on our behalf and prevent it. Help us to realize that it was man who did this to us, and not You and that all this will in time glorify Your Kingdom. Father help them through this time of doubt, resentment, blame, and anger at You. Lord our FEARS are many as well as our TEARS. Gracious Father, I ask You to wipe away the tears and help calm the fears. Help us to see that even when we feel that You have abandoned us and we turn away, that even tho we feel and think that we have left You, You have never left us. That once we are Yours You will never leave us or forsake us!!
We know that You could have done just that, but that since man sinned and was given a choice, of good & evil and the narrow path which is long and hard to seek You. Or the wide, supposedly safer path that satan has provided. And that not everyone belongs to You and would harm those because they listen to satan's lies.
Lord God our hearts are heavy with PAIN!! The bible tells us that not only when 2 or 3 are gathered together in Your Name, there You are. But also that what ever we ask for in Your Son Jesus Christ's Name will be granted.
And that You too feel our pain, our sorrow, our suffering and our shame. Help us to put the blame of what has happened where it belongs, and that on our journey of victory, survival & healing that in time we may forgive those who have hurt us.
But we thank You Heavenly Father for those You have put in our path, to help us along the way to heal and become VICTORIOUS!! Those who support us, understand us, help us, encourage us, those we can lean on. Lord some are confused, and others pull away from us, or they want to help & understand but don't know how. Some say hurtful things. They don't mean to but it hurts none the less. Help them to better understand what they've done Lord. Father carry those of us who are weary from the battle of taking back what was stolen from us. Keep us in Your wonderful care. Help those who struggle greatly, no matter what it may be. Lord Jesus, help us when we lose it and panic. Lord keep us from going over the edge, and help us when things trigger us and cause all sorts of things to happen and take place. These feelings are great, and at times we just don't know what to do. Lord!
Some may also find this quote relevant:
Where Was Jesus When This Happened To Me?If God loves me why didn't He stop the attacker?
God doesn't directly intervene in our own lives. He does work for the good of those who believe in him.(Psalm 66:5 "Come and see what God has done, how awesome are his works in man's behalf" NIV)
His voice on the subject of rape is quite clear (Deuteronomy 22:25 "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 22:26 Do nothing to the girl for she has committed no sin deserving death")
Edited by - AhHah on 7 October 2000 17:13:11
Seven and waiting (((HUGS))).
Frenchy, your story about your daughter brought tears to my eyes.
This is one of the most moving threads I've read here.
Kristen
