Everything you need to know on 144,000

mdb

THE GREAT DIVIDE:

“ANOINTED CLASS” & “OTHER SHEEP”

Watchtower claims the “Anointed Class” is the 144000 JW’s who go to heaven.

(Rev 7:4; 14:1-3)

All other JW’s are a part of God’s “other sheep” (Jn 10:16 - misinterpreted) and live forever on a paradise earth. Only those “born again” – thereby becoming “sons” of God – can share in this heavenly kingdom (Jn 1:12,13; Rom 8:16,17; 1 Pet 1:3,4)

The 144000 of true believers (Lk 12:32) allegedly began with the 12 apostles and was filled by 1935 AD (Judge R.F. Rutherford received ‘revelation’).

Most JW’s are not members of the “Anointed Class”. The Watchtower teaches that only members of the “Anointed Class”:

o Become born again (Jn 3:3-8; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 Jn 5:1)

o Become adopted as “sons” of God (Jn 1:12,13; Rom 8:14-17; Gal 4:6,7; Eph 1:5)

o Are brothers w/ Christ (Rom 8:29; Heb 2:11-17; 3:1)

o Are conformed to Christ’s image (Rom 8:29; 2 Cor 3:18)

o Are in union w/ Christ (2 Cor 5:17; Eph 1:3)

o Are heirs w/ Christ (Rom 8:17)

o Are members of New Covenant (Lk 22:20; Heb 12:20-22)

o Can partake of the Lord’s Supper (Lk 22:15-20; 1 Cor 11:20-29)

o Are baptized into Christ’s death (Rom 6:3-8; Phil 3:10,11;

o Are members of the church (Eph 1:22,23; 1:18)

o Are members of Christ’s body (Rom 12:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 4:4)

o Are members in God’s temple (1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5)

o Are members of Abraham’s seed (Gal 3:26-29; 6:15,16)

o Are members of the royal priesthood (1 Pet 2:4-9; Rev 1:6; 5:10)

o Are justified by faith (Rom 3:22-28; 5:1; Titus 3:7)

o Are sanctified (1 Cor 1:2; 6:11; Eph 1:4; Heb 12:14)

o Receive glorified bodies (1 Cor 15:40-54; Phil 3:21)

o Enjoy life in heaven (Jn 14:2,3; 1 Cor 15:50; 1 Pet 1:4)

o Will rule w/ Christ (1 Cor 6:2; 2 Tim 2:12; Rev 20:6)

o Will see Christ and God (Matt 5:8; 1 Jn 3:2)

REV 7:4 ; 14:1-3

144000 in the “Anointed Class”

The Watchtower switches interpretive methodology half way through Rev 7:4. They interpret the first half literally (144000 sealed) and the second half figuratively (12 tribes of ).

o The Watchtower teaches that women are a part of the “Anointed Class”.

o Scripture says women are excluded from the 144000 (Rev 14:4) and the men will not have defiled themselves with women.

\ the 144000 men are unmarried or celibate.

o Scripture states a heavenly destiny awaits all who believe in Jesus Christ, not just 144000 individuals. (Eph 2:19; Phil 3:20; 3:1; Heb 3:1; 12:22; 2 Pet 1:10,11)

o All who believe in Christ are heirs of the eternal kingdom (Gal 3:29; 4:28-31; Titus 3:7; James 2:5)

All believers (Jews & Gentiles) will be together in “one flock” under “one shepherd” (Jn 10:16) – not one flock in heaven and one flock on earth.

REV 7:9

The “Great Multitude”

Watchtower teaches that Rev 7:9 refers to the “other sheep” mentioned in John 10:16 and cannot become members of the body of Christ, be born again, etc. (see notes on “The Great Divide” – back page). They are an underprivileged group.

Questions:

o Where does it say the great multitude is exempt from heaven?

o Where does it say the great multitude is relegated to live on earth?

The vision in Revelation is of a great multitude physically present before the throne and the Lamb, just as the angels in Rev 7:11 are before the throne worshiping God. The Greek word for “before” is enopion. It is used a number of times in Revelation to speak of those in the physical presence of God’s throne (Rev 5:8; 7:11; 14:3).

Rev 14:3 is in reference to the 144000 being “before” (enopion) the throne.

The word used in Rev 7:9 is not in the sense of “in sight of” (as the Watchtower argues), but in the sense “of place, before someone or something.”

The great multitude is in God’s temple.

(Rev 7:15)

Where is God’s temple?

(Rev 11:19; 14:17)

\ The great multitude is “before the throne”, “in front of the Lamb”, and they serve God day and night “in his temple” which is “in heaven”.

**Rev 19:1,2 (“great multitude in heaven”)

LUKE 12:32

The “Little Flock”

The Watchtower believes this “little flock” is the 144000 who have a heavenly destiny (JW doctrine) – see Rev 7:4.

The context of Luke 12:32 encompasses v.22-34 (13 verses). Jesus was speaking to his disciples (little flock). There is nothing to relate this verse to the 144000 in Revelation 7, 14.

The disciples are called “sheep” in Jesus’ flock: Matt 10:16; 26:31.

**The idea that entrance into this so-called “little flock” of anointed believers would be closed in the year 1935, is not based on Scripture, but on an alleged ‘revelation’ givewn to J.F. Rutherford. NOTE: Watchtower Society claims they are the only group on earth that truly follows the Bible.

Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven and the thoughout his ministry. He never restricted the kingdom to 144000 people, but taught that all people should seek the kingdom and said whoever sought it would find it (Matt 9:35-38; Mk 1:14,15; Lk 12:22-34).

o Who enters the kingdom? The one born of water and the Spirit (John 3:5-7).

o Who is born again? Whoever believes, not only 144000 (1 Jn 5:1).

OT Saints in Heaven or on Earth?

The Watchtower Society teaches that pre-Christian saints such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & OT prophets are not a part of this “little flock”, but are of the “other sheep” (John 10:16) and have an earthly hope, not a heavenly hope.

The OT saints do have a heavenly hope.

(Heb 11, emphasize v.13,16) “…a heavenly country.”

o Elijah went to heaven (2 Kings 2:1,11)

o Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob are in heaven (Matt 8:11)

o All the OT prophets are to be with Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob (Lk 13:28)

JOHN 10:16

The “other sheep” (opposed to 144000)

In context, the “other sheep” is referring to Gentile believers. In the scriptures, the Jews were called “the lost sheep of ”

(Matt 10:6; 15:24) and those Jews who followed Jesus Christ were called His “sheep” (John 10).

Jesus referred to his Jewish disciples as sheep in his flock (Matt 10:16; 26:31).

\ the words of Jesus, “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold” (Jn 10:16) are clearly referencing Gentile believers.

Jews and Gentiles are reconciled in one body (Eph 2:11-22).

We are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:28)

There is no distinction btwn Greek and Jew ( 3:11).

**There will be no distinction btwn an “anointed class” and “other sheep”. All will dwell together as “one flock” under “one shepherd”.

PSALM 115:16

A paradise on Earth?

Psalm 115:16 says God has given the earth to the whole race of man. There are no distinctions or exclusions mentioned (“other sheep” or “anointed class” – 144000). The earth is mortal man’s as a dwelling place and a place to rule (Gen 1:28).

All true believers look to a heavenly destiny, not an earthly destiny. (Eph 2:19; Phil 3:20; Col 3:1; Heb 3:1; 12:22; 2 Pet 1:10,11; Jn 12:26; Gal 3:29; 4:28-31; Titus 3:7; James 2:5)

PSALM 37:9,11,29

A paradise on Earth?

The psalmist, in context, was speaking of something that people in his own lifetime (and following generations) would experience.

The Hebrew word for “earth” (eres) in Psalm 37 often carries the meaning of “land” (Psalm 7:29).

The Hebrew word for “forever” is ad (v.29). In the OT, it often denotes the unforeseeable future. The phrase “dwell in it forever” means “dwell in it from present through the unforeseeable future”, not necessarily for eternity.

Frogleg

mdb,

No offense, but what a load of shite. I couldn't care less about the 144,000. I ain't one, and even if I were, I wouldn't be. If God has chosen 144,000 to go to heaven, Hoboken, or around the block, I couldn't care less. The 144,000, by definition, would be here for ME. Not me for them. If God is distributing "everlasting" life, fine, I'll take my portion. And then, all I need is a good horse, a compass, and an earth without fences. Andy Jackson didn't call his home "The Hermitage" because he was an idiot. If Jehovah and the 144000 want to go lube each other and think "deep" thoughts, fine, I hope you are there cheering them on. As for me, if the big J wants to do me a favor, let me sleep under the stars and feel the warm caress of a beautiful womans breath on my neck. Forever. The rest of it is just you trying to seem important.

Now What?

No offense, but what a load of shite.

Unless I am reading it wrong, I think he is pointing out that it is a bogus doctrine. At least that is how I took it. It doesn't look to me as though he is trying to prove it, but rather expose it for what it is, which as you say, is shite.

Btw mdb, thx for the compilation.

skinnyboy

now thats touched a nerve!

Funny thing is, its all as beleivable as whats written in The Lord of the Rings, theyre both books.

i always thought it was very inclusive and elitist, and as men are imperfect, wouldn't the Big J have made a literal sign, ie; an identical "mark" on each of these 144,000 individuals, thus "marking" them. No? see, then we would beleive it a lot more easily. faith is bullshit, pure and simple. If you want people to really believe in something, show them hard facts, circumstantial evidence is never going to get you the numbers!

skyman

I hear you. Even when I was in I knew it was BS about the 144,000.

heathen

I really think the 144k dogma of the J-dubs is actually pretty close to correct . True the scripture about 2 folds of sheep was about the gentiles being grafted in but the little flock I think is in regard to the 144k, I don't think that women were part of the number but did have the hope of eternal life when christ returned in kingdom power . The 144k are martyrs that are the first fruits of the kingdom in that they are resurrected as spirits before anyone else inherits the kingdom as the apostle Paul said that we the living shall in no way precede those that have fallen asleep in death . I know the WTBTS does not say the 144k are martyrs and believe even that scripture pertains to the living 144k .

Frogleg

Now What, You and mdb are absolutely correct. I do not mean to offend. I must, however, agree with Skinnyboy: you have touched a nerve. If the Bible was written only for the 144,000, then all I can do is my best Monty Python and say: F*ck Off, and be thankful for the extra toilet paper. If God wrote the Bible for me, with the 144000 being asterisks saved for the last chapter, then of what significance can they have? If the Sacred Secret is only for a bunch of esoteric weiners and I'm lucky to be alive, then its Monty Python again! This earth is for me. God is for me. AGAIN: the 144,000 are here for me, not me for them. I don't care who or what they are. By all accounts, they should be lined up at my door desperately asking to wash my feet.

"Lonliness, is a place that I know well.

Its the distance between us,

and the space inside ourselves.

Emptiness, is the shuddering in your head.

Its the call of the living,

And the race from life to death.

Oh, and I know.

Yeah, I know, what you feel."

You are beautiful in your thoughts.

heathen

they should be lined up at my door desperately asking to wash my feet.

I think you would have to walk around in sandals for a couple of weeks without bathing to qualify . They would be some stinky feets .LOL I think the only church that does that is the seventh day adventists . The watchtowerites lack the humility to do something like that .

Narkissos

mdb,

You might be interested in reading Leolaia's thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/96705/1.ashx

Frogleg,

Perhaps your reaction is due to your unwittingly keeping in your mind something of the WT teaching, namely that there are two sorts of Christian "salvation," two hopes... and that one "class" (the "anointed") is somehow instrumental in the salvation of the other. This whole doctrinal construction is what mdb rightly challenges.

Of course earthly life, including death, is for all of us, and we don't need "people in heaven" to enjoy it. The WT shamelessly uses this basic evidence (we are earthly beings) to promote an extraordinary and unscriptural expectation, that of everlasting individual life on earth.

Everything you need to know on 144,000

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