>> In affluent lands, parents may see the sons and daughters of
>> their friends and relatives move ahead in professional careers
>> and enjoy seemingly successful lives.
"Seemingly successful"... hee hee! Yeah, they sure do LOOK successful, but boy-oh-boy, you wait until they're dead. Then we'll show 'em who's successful and who ain't!
Dave of the "wish I hadn't bought the lie" class
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-13-05 WT Study (Education)
by blondie 53 Replies latest watchtower bible
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AlmostAtheist
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AlmostAtheist
Sorry about that messed up post. Newbie to firefox, can't quite figure out how to accidentally get my posts to look right! Dave
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Frogleg
I apologize, I am not trying to monopolize this thread, but I am still angry. I have some questions for the weiners at the KH who find "higher" education so distatseful:
Just where do you suppose the wonderful offset presses that printed the shite your reading came from? The inks used? The lasers, computers, software, even the language, where did they come from? The microphone you're talking into and the amplifier and speakers that sounds it out, the very wire between them, the lights overhead, the power generation system and grid that powers your lights, sound amplifier, printing presses, where did they happen to come from? The truss design that supports the roof over your head, the car you drove here in, the shoes you walk on, the medicines you take to ease your maladies, the system of food distribution and preservation that allows you to eat fruit 365 days a year, the refrigeration system that allows you to enjoy delecacies that Solomon could only dream of, how did they happen to get here?
Oh that's right, they were miracled here by your wonderful God Jehovah? Bullshite, people did it. And not people with just high school educations either. Now, if the Borg wants to bitch about a college education, then fine, let them become like the Amish and do away with all of the benefits derrived from college education. Otherwise, they are what they are: crass, fat, unappreciative trolls jamming food in their faces while they bitch at the cook.
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Room 215
I tell you, with this article and this ill-considered anti-intellectualism, the Watchtower is ``eating its young." Firstly, it's a great magazine to enter as Exhibit A in any child custody case which pits a non-JW parent against a JW spouse. It also stands as a stark illustration of how far removed from reality the gerontocrats who run this organization are. It also threatens to alienate many otherwise loyal and devout JW parents of college-age children who, for once in their lives, feel compelled to part company with the ``company line" for the very first time. I know of at least five such cases in my wife's congregation who, however strongly they support the Faithful & Discreet Slave in all other matters, have silently but firmly broken with them on this one.
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Leolaia
Higher education in the Bible:
"The king ordered Ashpenaz, his chief eunuch, to select from the Israelites a certain number of boys of either royal or noble descent ... to be trained in every kind of wisdom, well-informed, quick at learning, suitable for service in the palace of the king. Ashpenaz himself was to teach them the language and literature of the Chaldeans. The king assigned them a daily allowance of food and wine from his own royal table. They were to receive an education lasting for three years, after which they were expected to be fit for the king's society....And God favored these four boys with knowledge and intelligence in everything connected with literature, and in wisdom; while Daniel had the gift of interpreting every kind of dream and vision" (Daniel 1:3-5, 17).
The Society's articles on higher education are curiously silent about God blessing Daniel's pagan higher learning. The best they can come up with is saying that Daniel was forced into accepting higher education because he was in exile: "It should be remembered that Daniel and his three Hebrew companions were captives in exile when they were obliged to undertake advanced studies in Babylon, but they consistently kept their integrity" (1 November 1992 Watchtower, "Education With a Purpose", p. 20). Yet, the preceding article in the same magazine noted that such education was "potentially dangerous", especially as it included "wisdom of the Chaldean priests," i.e. education in false religion and even spiritism ("Education in Bible Times", p. 13). So let me get this straight. The faith of Daniel and his companions was so strong that they risked death twice rather than worship the king or worship a false idol (Daniel 3, 6). And yet when they were faced with the task of learning Babylonish divination, astrology, myths, literature, and whatever else fell under the purview of "everything connected with literature and wisdom", the only objection they were able to muster is a minor matter about the food they were supposed to eat? Clearly, the education itself was not viewed as compromising their principles, as they were more than willing to stake their life on their faith.
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Effervescent
Yes, this article was quite vomit inducing. Thanks for the brilliant as usual comments Blondie!
I found it most interesting how they blamed the falling away of college students to the (so-called) immoral atmosphere of University. Of course it wouldn't have anything to do with forcing the students to start thinking for themselves and looking at things logically. Oh nooo
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Axelspeed
If you can get a hardcopy of this one, its a keeper. I'm sure they probably have before, but this is one of the few times I can recall that they have specifically spelled out 'higher education' = 4 yr degree (par 6). Its also one of the few times I can recall specifics on favorable vs unfavorable careers (par 18).
Hmmm. Hairdressing must be ok now, but some yrs. ago it was actually considered one of the bad, immoral ones.
There must be real concern in paradise...as this is one of the more direct/desperate articles, and really shows the life of delusion of the WT in this yr of 2005.
Note to WT: The party as you knew it 20 yrs. ago is over. The internet is here. And people, even JWs, realize that education is something that is better to have than not. The JW parents who were burned 20 yrs ago are not about to let it happen to their kids. The WT must change or become even more irrelevant and the chasm between Brooklyn and reality will grow wider. In some ways JW culture is already changing in an unexpected way...from the bottom up.
Axelspeed
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truthseeker
A reply to the WT's assumption that all young college students engage in drinking and sex...
(Paragraph 11) What do reports show regarding alcohol abuse, and sexual immorality among university students?
Then there is the environment. University and college campuses are notorious for bad behavior—drug and alcohol abuse, immorality, cheating, hazing, and the list goes on. Consider alcohol abuse. Reporting on binge drinking, that is, drinking for the sole purpose of getting drunk, New Scientist magazine (see URL below for whole article) says: "About 44 per cent of [university students in the United States] binge at least once in a typical two-week period." The same problem is common among young people in Australia, Britain, Russia, and elsewhere. When it comes to sexual immorality, the talk among students today is about "hooking up," which according to a Newsweek report "describes one-time sexual encounters—anything from kissing to intercourse—between acquaintances who’ve no plans to even talk afterward." Studies who that from 60 to 80 percent of students engage in this kind of activity. "If you’re a normal college student," says one researcher, "you do it."—1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9,10.
Faith and Frat Boys
Can devout Christians reconcile their beliefs with college culture? A look inside one campus By JEFF CHU/BLOOMINGTON
AARON HUEY / POLARIS FOR TIMEON A MISSION: Greek InterVarsity's Straub, center, parties at his house
Monday, May. 02, 2005At 3:30 on a Sunday Morning, Brandon Straub soberly surveyed the bodies draped across the sofas in his fraternity house at Indiana University. Two girls cuddled and exchanged a languid kiss. One's breast popped out of her low-cut top. "Aaaawesome," drawled one of Straub's frat brothers. Straub could only muster an awkward half-smile. "I'd be lying if I didn't say that seeing some of these scenes makes me sad," he said. "How will they feel when they wake up in the morning?"Truth is, most of them wouldn't be up in the morning. By the time the revelers rose, after noon, Straub, 21, who is not only a loyal fraternity member but also a leader in the Greek InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, had already gone to church and come back. As some of his frat brothers nursed hangovers and others cleaned up from the night before, Straub pondered his situation. He walks a fine line of faith at Indiana, which is currently ranked by the Princeton Review as America's No. 15 party school (and No. 5 in the category "lots of beer"). The challenge, Straub says, is "How can I serve God and love the guys here?"
They draw inspiration from Paul's letter to the Romans:"Do not be conformed to this world." But the Bible gives few details on how to navigate the collegiate world in 2005, leaving Christians to grapple with tough questions as they try to integrate their beliefs--and themselves--into college life: Can they be, like Straub, both a brother in Christ and a brother in a frat? Or should they live only with other believers? How do they deal with stereotypes of Christianity that others may hold? And what does it mean to live out their faith on a secular campus like Indiana's?
Faith matters to students as they head off to college, but then it tends to lapse. In a national study issued last month by UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute, 79% of 112,000 freshmen surveyed profess a belief in God; 69% say they pray. Still, only 40% think it is very important to follow religious teachings in everyday life. Spiritually, "college is a time of flux," says Alexander Astin, the study's co--principal investigator. That leads to "a dramatic falling-off of religious participation during the undergraduate years." But a significant minority are holding fast to their faith. Fourteen percent put themselves in the "other Christian" category--dominated by the nondenominational Protestant churches that have proliferated across the U.S.--up from just 5% in 1989. And 26% of the students surveyed call themselves born-again Christians, which would be a natural constituency for religious-fellowship groups on campuses. Evangelical student leaders at Indiana University estimate that fewer than 5% of the 30,000 undergraduates participate in one of the campus's Christian groups. But that's an uptick since the stridently secular 1960s, says dean of students Richard McKaig. In the past five years, "attention to spirituality has been especially strong." But committed Christians seem to want more than just spiritual living. "They're looking for something deeper," he says.
At Indiana, there are five main fellowship groups for evangelical students. The distinctions tend to be stylistic rather than substantive--the religious equivalent of J. Crew vs. American Eagle vs. Abercrombie. Campus Crusade is the largest, drawing as many as 350 students to "Cru," its weekly meetings, which, like those of all the groups, feature singing, Bible study and prayer. (Students say it's the best for dating opportunities as well.) The Christian Student Fellowship (CSF) is set apart by its house on Greek Row in which students of faith can live together. The Navigators, known for rigorous Bible study, are seen as more intellectual. InterVarsity is the most ethnically diverse, with higher numbers of African-American, Asian-American and Hispanic students in its ranks. And Greek InterVarsity is aimed at fraternity and sorority members.
But all the groups tend to go about their business quietly. "They kind of operate under the surface," McKaig says. Josh Sanburn, editor in chief of the Indiana Daily Student, notes that the number of students in the fellowships is roughly the same as the school's African-American student population, but unlike the Christians, "the black students on this campus are very good about making sure they're heard." Evangelical students, however, see their spiritual mission differently. Says sophomore CSF member Emily Hoefling: "We usually believe what affects people more than a newspaper article is to see people living Christian lives."
Joshua Hoke, 21, a preacher's son from Franklin, Ind., was more interested in having a good time than in setting a Christian example when he arrived at Indiana in 2002. At home, "Christianity wasn't a choice, and I wanted to do what I wanted to do," he says. "The culture of college is, If it feels good, do it." He says pot was his drug of choice but admits that he also drank heavily and even tried cocaine. None of that felt as good as he had hoped. One night in his sophomore year, he went for a walk, talking along the way to a God he wasn't sure was listening. "I said, God, are you even on this campus?" Hoke recalls. As he wandered down Greek Row, he heard music. "I thought it was a band in some frat," he says, but it was actually CSF's worship team. He saw the CHRISTIAN STUDENT FELLOWSHIP sign outside the house and went in.
Today Hoke lives in the house with 54 others, in what director Bill Kershner says is "possibly the biggest Christ-centered community living together on a college campus." CSF bought the house in 2001, after the fraternity that had occupied it was suspended for alcohol violations. Christian students share rooms with one or two other like-minded students, eat their meals in a communal dining room and get together for one-on-one spiritual mentoring and small-group Bible study. One women's group is studying Song of Solomon; an all-male group is looking at biblical role models like Abraham, King David and Jesus' disciples.
Some CSF members say they wanted the academic challenge of a secular school but appreciate the house's spiritual ethos. "It's almost like going to a Christian school," says Andrew Harper, 23, a senior from Indianapolis, "but you're not totally excluding yourself from the world." Says Tyler Irwin, 20, a sophomore from Polson, Mont.: "I don't want to put myself in a compromising position, with lots of alcohol and lots of girls and not a lot of clothes." House rules ban drinking, tobacco, illegal drugs and premarital sex. Room doors must be open when students of the opposite sex are together inside. Marks of holy living are everywhere. In the corridors, residents have posted snippets of Scripture, like FLEE THE EVIL DESIRES OF YOUTH. On a recent Friday night, as other Greek Row residents headed for bars, CSFers watched the animated film The Incredibles in their basement lounge.
For believers who live together--at CSF or in off-campus houses and apartments--insularity is a real concern. Lane Bowman, 22, a Crusade senior from Chesterton, Ind., lives with four other Christians and admits, "I'm immersed in a Christian bubble." He says he prays regularly that he can break out of his bubble and share his faith. But his cultural cues--his music, his books--are almost all Christian. The "angry music" that he liked in high school--such as Eminem's--is out, replaced by Christian rockers like Sonicflood. His nonclass reading tends toward books like Lord, Change My Attitude (Before It's Too Late), a guide to Christ-centered thinking by Illinois pastor James MacDonald.
Reaching out to other students is easier for the faithful who live in regular campus housing. Senior Kathryn Nelson, 22, a Crusade member from Milford, Ohio, recalls how she invited the atheist girl across the hall in her old dorm to join her at Bible study and would talk with the Jewish girl two doors down about faith. Now that she shares a house with nine other Christians, she has lost such casual, everyday interactions. "When you're living with people who aren't Christians, your ministry is right in front of your face," she says.
That was what attracted Greek InterVarsity's Straub to frat life. He pledged after an older InterVarsity member told him it would be "an incredible ministry opportunity," he says. "Try to think of another time when you'll live with 100 other guys, most of whom don't want to be bothered with God right now." But influence can flow both ways. Early in his freshman year, Straub found himself waking up after a couple of drunken nights, suffering a spiritual hangover of guilt. Now he leads a weekly Bible study in his secular frat. It's a daunting challenge, but he draws strength from Paul's letter to the Ephesians, in which the Apostle urges believers to "put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil." The idea "is very manly," Straub says with a smile. "If I'm saying to God, 'You're my man,' then I have to aspire to be a warrior for him."
Christians at Indiana say one of the biggest battles they fight is the stereotype that they are intolerant of the way other people live. "I'm in a Teaching in a Pluralistic Society class," says InterVarsity member Jennifer Beach, 19, a physical-education major. "People will talk about how women are oppressed and how that comes from the idea in the Bible that women have to be submissive."
Others lament that they are lumped with fundamentalist Christian groups--whether or not they agree with them. Protesters from Old Paths Baptist Church in Campbellsburg, Ind., 50 miles from Indiana's Bloomington campus, have come to the school weekly, toting posters of aborted fetuses and shouting anti-gay slogans. A picketer spotted Greek InterVarsity member Samantha Schein wearing an Alpha Phi sorority sweat shirt and told her that she lived in a "house of sin." "I said, 'Can't you just be quiet?'" says Schein. "Other students will just assume most Christians are like that."
What is true is that some of the students are making their mark in ways that will never draw much public attention. On the first Tuesday night after Easter, Greek InterVarsity president Peter Howell went door to door in his house, Sigma Nu, inviting his brothers to Bible study, as he has done every week for the past two years. Just two of the 70 brothers accepted the offer, but that doesn't mean the rest haven't been affected by Howell. "In the biggest meathead frat, he's himself. He's 100%. And no matter what day I say no, he'll always come back," says junior Trevor Loe, who declined to attend that week's session. "One day, when I'm ready, I'll remember Peter." ??
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truthseeker
I approached an elder last week, and asked him if the Society was against higher education because of the comments brought out in the drama. He said the Society disapproves of higher education.
He privately told me he disagrees with the view the Society has on education - he said it should be a personal choice.
He has a teenage son who is considering going to university when he graduates high school. The son was confused by the talk and the drama, and thinks he'll be "looked down" upon if he decides to attend.
This elder told me that there are "more young people going to university than pioneering."
I asked why he thought this was the case.
"They don't want to flip burgers for a living."
He then said something very interesting, that "the Society discourages competition", which is one reason that young JW's can't attend school sports. They also "might get involved with immorality."
He sensed a contradiction in the Society's stand becausse he then said that, "the Society seems to be OK with academic competition"; meaning it's OK for a JW youth to excel in school and come first place.
As a side note, how many Awake articles have you seen, where on the back cover, some JW student won first place in some public speaking competition, talking about their faith.
From what I gather, it's OK for JW's at high school to shine scholastically and win competitions when "it promotes religion", such as why JW's don't celebrate Christmas or take blood, but it's not OK to take part in after school sports.
Regarding the dangers of immoral temptations faced by JW's who attend extracurricular activities, he said that, "if JW's want to commit immorality, they don't have to join a club or play in a team."
It seems that the Society's official view of education is that it should strongly be discouraged, whereas the private view held by some is that education should be encouraged.
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truthseeker
The Society just DOES not get it.
Not everyone is cut out to be a pioneer.
The Apostle Paul speaks of those who were "teachers, preachers, evangelizers, shepherd" etc.
By denying children the right to pursue their own goals, these youth remained stunted with only an Awake! education to fall back on.
The Society doesn't mind if you fix cars, repair computers or cut hair.
They just don't want academic thinkers who can outsmart them.
