Theocratically approved RAPE!

by nicolaou 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Would a loving God instruct certain men to rape certain women?

    "Everyone that is found will be pierced through, and every one that is caught in the sweep will fall by the sword; and their very children will be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be pillaged, and their own wives will be raped."—Isaiah 13:15, 16.

    This is part of the command God gave to the Median soldiers when he instructed them to overthrow Babylon in 539 BCE. So here is my simple question to all believers - please answer Yes or No and then explain.

    Were those soldiers who raped those women guilty of doing any wrong?

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    I don't interpret that scripture as a command. It sounds more like the inevitable outcome of war.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Well let's check the verse in context.

    ....................................................................................................................

    13 The pronouncement against Babylon that Isaiah the son of A´moz saw in vision: 2 “Upon a mountain of bare rocks raise up a signal, YOU men. Lift up the voice to them, wave the hand, that they may come into the entrances of the nobles. 3 I myself have issued the command to my sanctified ones. I have also called my mighty ones for [expressing] my anger, my eminently exultant ones. 4 Listen! A crowd in the mountains, something like a numerous people! Listen! The uproar of kingdoms, of nations gathered together! Jehovah of armies is mustering the army of war. 5 They are coming from the land far away, from the extremity of the heavens, Jehovah and the weapons of his denunciation, to wreck all the earth.

    6 “Howl, YOU people, for the day of Jehovah is near! As a despoiling from the Almighty it will come. 7 That is why all hands themselves will drop down, and the whole heart itself of mortal man will melt. 8 And people have become disturbed. Convulsions and birth pains themselves grab hold; like a woman that is giving birth they have labor pains. They look at each other in amazement. Their faces are inflamed faces.

    9 “Look! The day of Jehovah itself is coming, cruel both with fury and with burning anger, in order to make the land an object of astonishment, and that it may annihilate [the land’s] sinners out of it. 10 For the very stars of the heavens and their constellations of Ke´sil will not flash forth their light; the sun will actually grow dark at its going forth, and the moon itself will not cause its light to shine. 11 And I shall certainly bring home [its own] badness upon the productive land, and their own error upon the wicked themselves. And I shall actually cause the pride of the presumptuous ones to cease, and the haughtiness of the tyrants I shall abase. 12 I shall make mortal man rarer than refined gold, and earthling man [rarer] than the gold of O´phir. 13 That is why I shall cause heaven itself to become agitated, and the earth will rock out of its place at the fury of Jehovah of armies and at the day of his burning anger. 14 And it must occur that, like a gazelle chased away and like a flock without anyone to collect them together, they will turn, each one to his own people; and they will flee, each one to his own land. 15 Every one that is found will be pierced through, and every one that is caught in the sweep will fall by the sword; 16 and their very children will be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be pillaged, and their own wives will be raped.

    17 “Here I am arousing against them the Medes, who account silver itself as nothing and who, as respects gold, take no delight in it. 18 And [their] bows will dash even young men to pieces. And the fruitage of the belly they will not pity; for sons their eye will not feel sorry. 19 And Babylon, the decoration of kingdoms, the beauty of the pride of the Chal·de´ans, must become as when God overthrew Sod´om and Go·mor´rah. 20 She will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation. And there the Arab will not pitch his tent, and no shepherds will let [their flocks] lie down there. 21 And there the haunters of waterless regions will certainly lie down, and their houses must be filled with eagle owls. And there the ostriches must reside, and goat-shaped demons themselves will go skipping about there. 22 And jackals must howl in her dwelling towers, and the big snake will be in the palaces of exquisite delight. And the season for her is near to come, and her days themselves will not be postponed.”

    ....................................................................................................................

    Doesn't seem to be anything 'inevitable' about it. These despicable acts were at God's command and at his instigation. So I repeat my original question; Were those soldiers - who were after all only acting according to God's will - guilty of doing any wrong?

    Nic'

  • blondie
    blondie

    I see your point daniel-p. But in this next case the rape was by an Israelite of Israelite women and was predicted supposedly by God as part of a punishment of an Israelite king. First David and Bathsheba were not put to death for adultery according to the Law, but their first son died. Next David was punished by seeing his concubines (wives) violated publicly. I wonder what those women did to deserve that treatment? Hmmm. I thoroughly dislike many parts of the OT because of the way women are depicted as property.

    (2 Samuel 12:9-12) . . .. 10

    And now a sword will not depart from your own house to time indefinite, as a consequence of the fact that you despised me so that you took the wife of U·ri´ah the Hit´tite to become your wife.11 This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am raising up against you calamity out of your own house; and I will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. 12 Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I, for my part, shall do this thing in front of all Israel and in front of the sun.’"

    (2 Samuel 16:20-22) 20

    Later Ab´sa·lom said to A·hith´o·phel: "YOU men, give counsel on YOUR part. What shall we do?" 21 Then A·hith´o·phel said to Ab´sa·lom: "Have relations with the concubines of your father, whom he left behind to take care of the house. And all Israel will certainly hear that you have made yourself foul-smelling to your father, and the hands of all those who are with you will certainly become strong." 22 Accordingly they pitched a tent for Ab´sa·lom upon the roof, and Ab´sa·lom began to have relations with the concubines of his father under the eyes of all Israel.

    ***

    it-1 p. 264 Bath-sheba ***
    Years later, further distress came to David for his sin, his own concubines being defiled by his son Absalom.—2Sa 11:27–12:23; 16:21, 22.

    ***

    w68 1/15 p. 48 The Righteous Standard of the Changeless God ***
    Even his wives, his concubines, were to be publicly ravished by a rebellious son of his own house.—2 Sam. 12:1-14; 16:21, 22.

    Blondie

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    By whose standards? Consider that jehovah did something similar when he was behind the babylonians in their destruction of jerusalem. It was his will that they do it, but then, he in turn had them destroyed by the above named medes and also the persians for having done it. He had them destroyed for doing what he wanted done to his chosen people. In the eyes of a capricious god like that, yes, it probably was. Then again, the babylonians were gentiles, so maybe not. Makes my head hurt. Human standards are more consistent, imo.

    S

  • Scully
    Scully

    Every time I read something like this, it becomes more and more clear to me that Jehovah is not a very nice "god".

    Even in terms of just totally disrespecting boundaries that JEHOVAH HIMSELF SET - Jehovah causing Mary to become pregnant while she was betrothed to Joseph (and was legally Joseph's "property") - a regular Joe Israelite would have been subject to the death penalty for this kind of violation.

  • nilfun
    nilfun

    I look at it as some guy's attempt to justify the heinous act of rape. Writing a command as if it came from his God -- the pillagers and rapists were kinda trying to cover their tracks...

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    I look at it as some guy's attempt to justify the heinous act of rape. ; Writing a command as if it came ;from his God -- the pillagers and rapists were kinda trying to cover ;their tracks...

    I agree, but that oppinion is very different to the jw's claim that the bible is the word of god and is to be trusted in everything.

  • Simon
    Simon

    It demonstrates how obviously 'uninspired' the bible is, because it shows the ignorances of the male-dominated society at that time where women were property.

    Ironic isn't it that the modern western nations (under satans rule for how long now?) have better laws, treatment and human-rights that a supposedly loving creator.

  • Legolas
    Legolas
    Ironic isn't it that the modern western nations (under satans rule for how long now?) have better laws, treatment and human-rights that a supposedly loving creator.

    LMAO...So true, so true!

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