by thepackage 31 Replies latest jw experiences
orbison,
I have guns and have yet to kill or hurt anyone.
Anyone sane/non criminal should have guns if they want, the first time you do harm with one you should feel the full force of the law. Do the crimials, dont do law abiding cititzens.
The society allows guns for hunting and sport so long as its ok with the laws of the land.
Being a JW didn't stop me from having guns, and I still have them. I use them for hunting, and would never hurt or threaten anyone with them.
But there are few things as nice to wake up to as venison sausages for breakfast!
W
I have had guns my entire life. I don't understand the fear associated with them. They are a tool like anything else. Who in the hell cares if JW's have guns?
growing up as a dub...the whole family....whole congo really... had guns for hunting.
worked in law enforement for years once i got out....wife and i both legally "carry" all the time now.
I had them and still have them, though that was something I certainly didnt go around beating a drum about. I actually went out shooting with an elder a few times.
Brilliant response by Oroborus21 in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.
HI Horrible Life, I picked my name "The Package" becasue you never know what is inside a package!
I am noticing some stories of j-dubbies shooting themselves and others , I told ya they are too stupid to own guns .I don't think guns themselves are evil but they are dangerous when evil people have them .
WT viewpoint down through the years
*** w90 5/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***·
Is it appropriate for a Christian to go hunting or fishing?The varied reactions to hunting often involve deep feelings. So it is best for Christians to strive to understand and apply Jehovah God’s thinking on the matter as found in the Bible.
God gave mankind dominion over both "wild" and "domestic" animals. At first, humans did not have the Creator’s permission, nor perhaps any physical need, to kill animals for food. (Genesis 1:24, 29, 30) Only after the Flood did God give mankind the right to eat animal flesh that was properly drained of "its soul—its blood." (Genesis 9:3, 4) That could be meat from either domestic or wild animals.
The Israelites raised animals, such as sheep and cattle, that could be slaughtered for food when they craved meat. They also hunted and fished to obtain food. (Deuteronomy 12:20-24; 14:4-20) This harmonizes with God’s figurative saying that he would ‘send many fishers to fish for his people and many hunters to hunt for them.’ (Jeremiah 16:16) Later, Jesus included fishermen among his apostles and directed actual fishing operations.—Matthew 4:18-22; 17:27; Luke 5:2-6; John 21:4-7.
When the aged patriarch Isaac asked for a tasty meat dish, his son Jacob was willing to kill two young goats to make a dish for him. Esau, though, hunted a wild animal to get venison for his father. Note that although meat from domestic animals was available, Isaac asked for meat from a game animal. Note, too, that both sons killed animals that would be food, not for themselves, but for someone else.—Genesis 27:1-19.
Animals might be killed for reasons other than their meat. Their skins could be made into clothing. (2 Kings 1:8; Mark 1:6; Hebrews 11:37) Protective coverings and utensils were also made from animal hides, even of animals dietarily unclean and that Israelites did not eat.—Exodus 39:33, 34; Numbers 24:7; Judges 4:19; Psalm 56:8.
God’s requirement that the blood of slain animals be poured out should remind hunters that animal life is from him and so ought to be treated respectfully, not wantonly. (Leviticus 17:13) Nimrod evidently slaughtered animals and probably boasted about his hunting skill, the size or number of his kills, or the trophies that might have been made from them. He was "a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah."—Genesis 10:9.
Such a thrill over hunting or killing animals, or over reeling in fish, could develop in a Christian. Many a hunter or fisherman who has scrutinized his heart has discovered that he was infected with the ‘joy of the kill.’ Such excitement goes hand in hand with wanton disregard for animal life. So while it is not wrong to hunt or fish (when the kill or catch will be used by someone for food or another fitting purpose), it would be improper to do so if a Christian had a spirit reminiscent of Nimrod. But there are dangers besides getting a thrill out of the chase, the kill, or a trophy.
The
Watchtower of July 15, 1983, discussed why true Christians do not carry or keep guns for use against humans or protection from them. (Pages 23-6) Meditating on that counsel has led some Witnesses to reevaluate having even hunting guns. Not a few have chosen to get rid of their guns altogether or to avoid having them on display and readily accessible. These Christians thus would not give the impression of taking pride in weapons or trusting in them. Furthermore, not even having hunting guns, or not having them easily accessible, can avert tragedy. The deadly weapons could not then come into the hands of children who might accidentally hurt or kill someone, nor would guns be at hand if someone was extremely frightened or depressed.—Compare Proverbs 22:3.Some Christians may like the flavor of certain game or fish, and the most practical way to obtain such food is by hunting or fishing. Others enjoy the air and exercise linked with hunting in the woods, or find that quiet hours of fishing are relaxing. The Bible does not speak against this, so there is no need to judge others as to whether they enjoy such things or not. And the example of Isaac and his sons shows that there is no need to make an issue of who will eat the game or fish.—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 14:4.
The apostle Peter was evidently quite attached to fishing. With some fish lying nearby, the resurrected Jesus helped him to analyze his own feelings about fish or the fishing business. Jesus asked: "Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?"—John 21:1-3, 9-15; see The Watchtower, November 1, 1988, page 31.
Similarly, a Christian who in good conscience chooses to go hunting or fishing should have his priorities in order. For example, if a hunting or fishing season was to open at a time when congregation meetings were scheduled, what would he do? Or does his conversation show that he takes pride in his prowess at hunting or fishing? How fine it is if a mature Christian who, on occasion, chooses to hunt or fish can say with conviction: "Yes, Lord, you know I have affection for you [more than for these pursuits]."—John 21:16.
*** Require Brochure lesson 12 p. 25 Showing Respect for Life and Blood ***
3. Animal life is also sacred to the Creator. A Christian may kill animals to provide food and clothing or to protect himself from sickness and danger. (Genesis 3:21; 9:3; Exodus 21:28) But it is wrong to mistreat animals or to kill them just for sport or pleasure.—Proverbs 12:10.
***
w83 7/15 p. 25 "Seek Peace and Pursue It" ***14
Would it be fitting for the Christian to possess firearms for the purpose of hunting animals for food? Since the Flood, God has permitted the killing of animals for food, though the blood must be poured out on the ground, not eaten. (Genesis 9:3, 4; Deuteronomy 12:23-25) When allowed by local law, some Witnesses keep guns for protection against wild animals or for shooting game. (Matthew 22:21) To them this may be an important or practical source of food. But never should anyone think that Jehovah would approve of taking animal life for sport, for the thrill of killing—as has been the way with ancient and modern "Nimrods." Since "the soul of the flesh is in the blood," this is precious in Jehovah’s sight.—Leviticus 17:11, 14.15
If a sizable number of Witnesses in a congregation should be disturbed in that someone is hunting animals merely for sport, and not for obtaining food, he might not be in position to receive special service privileges, because of his offensive reputation.—1 Timothy 3:2.***
w54 5/1 pp. 286-287 Questions from Readers ***•
Some think it is wrong to hunt and fish, while others see no wrong in such pursuits. Some who think hunting permissible do contend, however, that the game should be thoroughly bled immediately after it is shot to avoid violating the prohibition of eating blood. This bleeding is not generally done. What is the Scriptural view concerning these matters?—A. A., United States.We must neither condemn what Jehovah approves nor approve what Jehovah condemns. The Bible speaks of "unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed." Some argue this applies only after the Noachian flood. But it was true in Eden, when "Jehovah God proceeded to make long garments of skin for Adam and for his wife and to clothe them." Also, long before the flood Abel was approved for offering an animal sacrifice, whereas disapproved Cain did not engage in killing animals for sacrifice but offered bloodless field products.—2 Pet. 2:12; Gen. 3:21; 4:3-5, NW.
After the Flood man was permitted to kill animals for various reasons. The Mosaic law required the slaughter of different kinds for sacrifice, and animal skins or leather were properly used for not only garments but also such things as shoes, belts, containers, writing material and tabernacle parts and accessories. (Lev. 1:5, 10, 14; 13:59; Ezek. 16:10; Mark 6:9; 2 Ki. 1:8; Matt. 3:4; 9:17, NW; 2 Tim. 4:13; Ex. 26:14; Num. 4:6-14) If an animal killed a person it was to die: "In case an ox should gore a man or a woman and that one actually dies, the ox is to be stoned without fail." If animals were destructive of man’s property or crops they could be caught and destroyed: "Catch for us the foxes, the little foxes, that are despoiling the vineyards, since our vineyards are in bloom."—Ex. 21:28, NW; Cant. 2:15, AT.
Animals may also be used for food, with the exception of the blood: "Every creeping animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat." During the wilderness sojourn Israelites wanting to eat animals suitable for sacrifice had to slay them at the tabernacle so the priest could sprinkle the blood upon Jehovah’s altar. When they had settled in the Promised Land and it would have been too great a hardship to bring animals suitable for sacrifice to the temple at Jerusalem, they could slaughter the animals at home and pour the blood out on the ground and cover it with dust. This was the same way the blood of wild game, such as the gazelle and the stag, was to be disposed of. (Gen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 17:3-6; Deut. 12:15, 16, 20-24, NW) Hunting for food was permitted, but the hunter was warned to bleed his game: "As for any man of the sons of Israel or some temporary resident who is residing for a while in your midst who in hunting catches a wild beast or a fowl that may be eaten, he must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust. For the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood by the soul in it. Consequently I said to the sons of Israel, ‘You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.’"—Lev. 17:13, 14, NW.
If the hunter failed to bleed his game properly he was put to death, or "cut off." To eat unbled game not only was prohibited to Israelites under the Law, but also is forbidden for Christians: "Keep yourselves free from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things killed without draining their blood and from fornication." (Acts 15:29; 21:25, NW) Immediately following the instruction to hunters to bleed their game and that to eat blood will mean their death, we read: "As for any soul that eats a dead body or something torn by a wild beast, whether a native or a temporary resident, he must in that case wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening. Then he must be clean. But if he will not wash them and will not bathe his flesh, then he must answer for his iniquity." (Lev. 17:15, 16, NW) A body that dies of itself or of wounds inflicted by another animal would not be properly drained of blood, and hence was not to be eaten. Penalty for deliberate violation of the commandment to eat no blood is death, but in the last-mentioned case guilt could be erased by a ceremony of purification, which indicates it was a case where the commandment was violated innocently, unknowingly, as might happen when someone purchased or bartered for meat, or when eating as a guest of someone else. Now, as in Israel’s day, one who violates the command concerning blood accidentally, without knowing it, not doing so deliberately, can gain forgiveness by repentance and avoiding a recurrence of the trespass.
Basing our position on the Bible, we shall have a balanced view, neither fanatically opposing all killing of animals, nor wantonly hunting them for sport. Jesus ate meat, both fish and lamb. He directed a successful fishing operation using a net, and also instructed that a fish be caught with a hook. (Luke 24:42, 43; Ex. 12:3, 8; Matt. 26:17-21; Luke 5:4-6; Matt. 17:27) Apparently fish required no special attention in bleeding, since there is no instruction concerning them; but the requirements relative to game birds and animals are specific and must be followed by theocratic hunters seeking to vary their meat diet with some wild game. Bullet wounds of today, like arrow wounds or fang-and-claw wounds from beasts of prey during the time of application of the Mosaic law, seldom effect adequate drainage of blood. Hence the hunter must make it complete by using his knife, whether it spoils a trophy or not.
The first congo I was in (rural Eastern Washington) a number of us had guns and went hunting. I had always owned guns and hunted, and didn't give it much thought. I think there was some talk about not owning guns, but at least one of us was an elder.
Later I moved to a suburban Western Washington congo. It was stronly suggested that I get rid of the guns and quit going hunting, which I refused to do.
Blondie, I had quite a few JWs give me a hard time because I went hunting, and eventually I started carrying a photocopy of that QFR in my meeting bag. I had this part highlighted:
The Bible does not speak against this, so there is no need to judge others as to whether they enjoy such things or not.
Elders in particular were offended when I showed them this. Probably because they saw I was enjoying myself too much.
W
