All Elders Aren't Bad

by sammielee24 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  marsh

  Hi,

  Mathew 20:28 "Just as the Son of man did not come to be served,but to serve,and to give his life a ransom for many"

  There will always be those who like to control,always have been always will be.There are many lovely JW Elders,sadly also not so lovely.

  Luke 6: 39.And He spoke a parable to them:"Can the blind lead the blind"? Will they not both fall into the ditch?

  Since I have become a Christian I have seen a huge difference,In some Christian churches they have a sort of JW mentality where they like to control...........but the vast majority of Churches are not like this.I once asked a Baptist Minister "Who do I go to to confess" he said "You go to God",between you and the Lord".raised a RC we went to the priest,as a JW went to the Elders.There is church discipline but if they are truly IN CHRIST they will be very loving and help you in the right direction.

  There are Deacons,Pastors,Preachers,Elders,But these are not to be served but to serve,there should be respect and Godly submission.But we are free IN CHRIST in every way.

  Galatians 5 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ hasmade us free,and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

  Love fulfills the law,and we should walk in the Spirit,bear one anothers burdens.Glory only in the Cross.

  Many have left the Watchtower not just because they have been thrown out or been abused,lots of JWS left when they learn that the Watchtower do not have the Truth.I am speaking here about Elders,POs.Pioneers rank and file,those witha good JW background....Why do you think they leave?

  2 peter 2: 1 But there were also false prophets among the people,even as there will be false teachers among you,who will secretly bring in destructive heresies,even denying the Lord who bought them,and bring on themselves swift destruction.

  Many years ago I was privately reproved had to go to a JC.My crime? trying to be reconciled to my ex Husband who wanted re-marriage.The questions were very personal VERY,I was a JW in good standing this was my first crime.The book study was in my home for years,you have to be goody two shoes to have that privaledge.After a very distressing and very confusing time with 3 Elders and a D.O. involved .I had bad advice basically and was told satan was behind everything to kill us all spiritually.I did not remarry and sent my ex away.I remained a JW for 15 more years.

  What I would like to stress is that not all those who leave are evil.The WT tend to blacken the names of people who leave I have heard such awful stories.They are responsible for so much heartache,THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR BEING BLIND GUIDES. and the Lord will discipline and deal with this very dangerous cult/religion.

  A sister in my old congregation said there was so much dirt swept under the carpet that it was up to the knees.
• 

  John Doe

  I agree sammielee. Unfortunately, many on this site want to see themselves as victims of life, and elders, as being former authority figures for them, are an easy place to place blame. To hear some tell their stories, you would think elders are Satan's minions and ex-jw's are persecuted heros saving the world. (I'm speaking of some, not all) Animosity inevitably and irrevocably breeds inaccuracy and contempt. Ironically, many here would sustain much higher levels of credibility if they weren't so venemous and judgmental.
• 

  Balsam

  Sammielee24,

  I have to say that the majority of Elders and even CO I had to deal with were basically very kind, and absolutely sincere in their dealings with the flock. There was those few though that were unbelieveably hateful and unkind about even the smallest things. There are two specific Elders I have know that had really nasty and hateful feelings about women and treated their with wifes and the sisters horribly and everyone just accepted it. Neither of them was removed for it.

  The kindest Elders always seemed to be rode the hardest to be more firm in carrying out the society wishes of harshness. For a time my ex husband was an Elder while we were together and he was so stressed out and became so cold and demanding that I could not stand him. Eventually he crossed the line and had an affair with a sister and was removed. Later disfellowshipped for taking up smoking after he quit meetings. And the Elders strongly encouraged me to remain with him back in 1977 though I would have been free to divorce him. I was told that is what Jehovah wanted was for our marriage to remain intact that surely my faithfulness would help him to return. He eventually did return and was reinstated, and yes I had been the one who encouraged him to return. But our troubles only got worse, and the marriage was full of verbal abuse by him, I knew he hated me. Still from time to time the Elders would encourage him to reach out to be an Elder again one day. When I left him he was a ministerial servant.

  Looking back I know the men who are and have been Elders are under terrible pressure to direct the flock with a firm hand. I saw it's toll on them and their families. Especially the pressure on their children, and the double lives the kids lived. But you know years later it was a very loving Elder who knew of how terrible my marriage was and he and his wife supported my desire to leave my very active JW husband for another man. My childhood sweet heart had entered my life and threw me a life line. It was their assurance that Jehovah would not turn on me and cast me off that finally allowed me the courage to leave and get free of the mental and physical abuse. The pure hatred my children's father had for me after 30 years of marriage. Had they not helped me I don't know where I would be now 4 years later. You know why they helped me? It was because a sister in their old congregation before I knew them, had suffered as I had and eventually committed suicide. They feared for my life. Of course if I saw them today they could not speak to me and I would not expect it because I am disfellowshipped. But they know and I know it was their help that probably saved my life. That Elder and his wife will always hold a special place in my heart.

  So a toast to those Elders who really cared and even stepped outside the mentality to help or save another witness. I very probably owe them my life. If there is a God who cares I know he is watching out for Elders like that. Now those Elders are real life lines to JW still in.

  Balsam
• 

  jaffacake

  Hello Marsh,

  I really enjoyed your post - excellent thanks. Have we met? If not WELCOME
• 

  mrsjones5

  Maybe not but I wouldnt trust one as far as I could throw one, my 2 elder uncles included.
• 

  marsh

  Hi jaffacake.

  Many thanks for the welcome,I am new here.I am from the UK.have some friends in the Tyne and Wear area.
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  tall penguin

  No, all elders aren't bad. As Ray Franz has said, they are, like all jws, "victims of victims." In my last congregation there were a few elders there that I would consider good men; conscientious, caring and loving men. After my previously traumatic jc in another congregation, these elders provided a safe place to land, even assuring me that my jc was wrongly handled. It was these elders that restored my faith in the system, even if just for a short time.
  At one point, I even wrote a letter to the BOE in that congregation thanking them for the time and effort they expended on behalf of the congregation. I also thanked them for having helped "restore" me. And at the time, I meant what I wrote. There were some good elders in that congregation. One in particular I considered my "spiritual father." He helped me through some very difficult times, listening to my hurts, even crying with me at times.
  In my experience though, it is these good elders that get burnt out. I've seen them abuse alcohol to cope. I've watched them develop heart problems. Shortly before I started my fade I accompanied my "spiritual father" to the hospital for yet more tests on his heart. He had recently stepped out of the Secretary role in the congregation and he continued to hurt for the plight of the congregation. He really cared for the "sheep". And it was slowly killing him. This is a good elder. A good man.
  Unfortunately, in the end, even the good elders succumb to their organizational training. As upside/down quoted: "All that is necessary for Evil to triumph...is for good men to do NOTHING!" In the past couple of years, I watched these much-loved elders in my congregation tow the party line and turn a blind eye to injustice and abuse. I watched them impute wrong motives. I watched them judge without evidence. I watched them "stop up their ear" to the cries of those wronged. I watched them use their position to "lord it over."
  In one of my last email correspondences with my "spiritual father" (I was fading and inactive by this point) I thanked him for being a wonderful mentor and friend to me. I reminisced about the wonderful times we'd shared in the field service. (He was a pioneer.) I told him that he embodied what I thought it meant to be a shephard. He didn't reply to that email. In my very last email I cried out about the abhorrent deeds being committed in the name of Jehovah, the God I and he loved so much. Again, no reply. And that was the last of it.
  So, it's true. All elders aren't bad. But even those with good intentions and a good heart can stand by and watch as the people they love and want to protect are mistreated and abused. And that, imho, is intolerable behaviour from any human being, jw or not.
  tall penguin
• 

  AuldSoul

  I agree, sammielee24, I have never thought my father (PO) was a bad man.

  However, I hope you have picked up on the fact that many don't distinguish between the elders, the organization, and the policies.

  When the elders act as agents of the organization they are becoming part of an unfeeling corporate entity—a business (and a big one at that).

  When an elder enforces corporate policies they can do so as nicely as they please but it doesn't change the cruelty of the policy or the fact that the elder's actions are correspondingly cruel (whatever their intent or personal feelings).

  Now, we have read many times how if all the religions of the world taught that no one could go to war there would be no wars. Heck, according to JW beliefs even if all preachers rebelled against their leadership and taught that no one should fight there would be no wars. You may be wondering, "What is the point of this?"

  Every elder is cruel who stands idly by and permits cruelty. That is true whether the cruelty takes the form of direct abuse (verbal or otherwise), abuse of organizational authority (mandates from COs or through COs about how to handle a case), or abuse by stated and/or published corporate policy.

  I don't know whether I made that case well enough, but I think this is what people on the forum are actually writing in response to.

  AuldSoul
• 

  tijkmo

  i wasnt a bad elder...although i was an imperfect one

  i was treated horrifically by elders who individually were not bad men

  tis worth reiterating that it ultimately the system that is at fault...and this is worth repeating to

  So, it's true. All elders aren't bad. But even those with good intentions and a good heart can stand by and watch as the people they love and want to protect are mistreated and abused. And that, imho, is intolerable behaviour from any human being, jw or not.

  if action is the enemy of thought..then we should take some time

  and complacency the enemy of truth..we should engage our minds

  if expedience is stopping justice take its course...then maybe we should think about taking it by force

  if all that we're allowed to do is shut up and let it be...then god i hope you've factored in - some contingency

  ' you rocked my world ' tijkmo
• 

  sammielee24

  Interesting reading all of the posts here. I can't say that I disagree with what anyone is saying. I understand what is being said and why. As any of you who have been JW's know - it's often said the 'Jehovah is allowing it' & 'if I can't do anything about it, then Jesus certainly can and he will in due time'. Haven't we often heard and believed that it is a 'perfect organization run by imperfect men'?

  It is easy to recognize the destruction and judgement when you are outside, but while you are in the organization and you believe in all that it is, I suppose it is easy to salve one's conscience by using those simple phrases. That is why it is so easy for millions of followers still in this cult to ignore the lies and destroy the people around them. Everyone believes. If we go so far as to lay blame (which I'm not doing but just moving on in a circular thought pattern), then think of it this way. If every publisher were to ignore shunning and refuse to follow the rules around disfellowshipping, then there would be no disfellowshipping because there would be no point to it. The GB sets the rules for disfellowshipping, the Elders enforce those rules, the publishers bow to the discipline. If the GB set the rules, and the Elders tried to enforce them but the publishers refuse to follow them then what? So it goes round and round - we as believers believe, we follow, we allow - and it happens at every level.

  I'm not justifying anything or defending anyone for their destructive actions. Sitting by quietly at any level is wrong. I agree. In trying to examine the cult methodology in manipulating how we think and why we act the way we do - it is simply interesting to examine all action from the top down.