by Lady Lee 52 Replies latest jw friends
AuldSoul,
You make logical points. But so what? What are we dealing with here? What is of primary importance?
1) Feeling justified and logical about our responses to current JWs?
2) Taking our best shot at reaching them when we have that golden opportunity on this message board?
I enjoy your posts very much.
Confession: the worst possible thing that can happen is if what they find here validates what the WTS claims about those they brand as "apostates."
In my opinion, the worst possible result is if once having been freed we make ourselves slaves to the rescue of those not yet freed. I believe that if they see actual freedom they may cower from it or they may embrace it. If I put on a false-face so their feelings won't get hurt, am I free? Or am I shackled to the confines of their narrow perspective?
If someone wants help, there is plenty here to be had. If my father, mother, or sister came on here and posted what this person posted UNDER THEIR OWN NAME, I would have responded no differently than I did. When people act like complete asses I treat them accordingly. I loathe propagandists. Their hallmark is one-way communication.
This poster knows that two-way communication is VERY dangerous. Better to stick with the one-way communication in the Watchtower, Awake!, meetings, Assemblies, and Schools. It is safe. No chance of an original thought creeping in, that way.
AuldSoul
I don't think that by being willing to hold my tongue (or fingers) I am being a slave to the WTS. I understand your comments about freedom. That said, when one of them comes in here, I am thinking less about me, and more about them. Does this mean I'll continue to tolerate ignorance from the same person indefinitely? No, I can't do that. But I'm willing to give them a reply that both demonstrates the freedom I enjoy apart from the WTS--and has a better likelihood of helping them now.
For a great many, the effects from being disfellowshipped and shunned are the worst thing the've contended with
I was referring to the original "accusation", not the shunning and all that that entails. As you know, I doubt anyone lost more than Mrs ozzie and I; still, part of having a life is being able to be above the slagging off.
But I agree that for many nerves are still very raw - so it's a fair point that allowances must be made - they are each day on JWD!
I'm off to bed now. Keep 'em in line, Grumblestiltskin, while I sleep with the beautiful Mrs Ozzie.
I've been thinking about this sort of thing for a while, the ethics of apostacy. People are held in the jws by phobias, trigger words that pull them back into the cult think. I think theres a fine line between doing something to help a jw get out, and going too far and triggering a phobia that sucks them back in and reinforces their faith.
If someone wants help, there is plenty here to be had.
There is plenty to be had, but the person first needs to realise that they need help to be able to look for it. The methods of persuasion used in groups like jws make it so they don't realise just how powerfully they are being manipulated. If something is harmful, is it less harmfull because the person doesn't realise its happening? And if you saw somebody walking into danger and could do something to prevent it, would you just let them carry on and do nothing?
If you go out looking for it and its all you do, then you might be a slave of it, but if something falls in your lap, all it takes for evil to prevail is enough good men to do nothing.
I think that when people like that come to the site and vent, then its no good venting back because all that does is convince them that what the wbts said about apostates is true and stops them from looking at any other material. If you had a puppy that didn't know any better and urinated on your floor, would you kick it or housetrain it?
Paul
It is possible that I am taking personally Lady Lee's comments which might not even have applied to my posts.
Even allowing that I don't think outside JW-land should reflect "oneness of spirit" in the sense that it is reflected inside, we don't all think the same. We aren't all angry people, we aren't all nice people, we aren't all anything. We are out because we don't squelch diversity. That applies to reacting to accusatory Witnesses who come here as much as it does to doctrinal issues, matters of family life, or discussions of science.
We are what JWs are, UNDERNEATH their false-face they show everyone.
AuldSoul
I gave one of the nastier replies. Not sure why, but LB really pissed me off. I'd like to say I won't be so mean in future replies, but having entered a hormonally-challenged phase of my life, I can't promise anything. All I can say is that I'll try count to ten or (maybe one hundred) before I hit send. *sigh*
I really appreciated what you said here AuldSoul...
"Even allowing that I don't think outside JW-land should reflect "oneness of spirit" in the sense that it is reflected inside, we don't all think the same. We aren't all angry people, we aren't all nice people, we aren't all anything. We are out because we don't squelch diversity. That applies to reacting to accusatory Witnesses who come here as much as it does to doctrinal issues, matters of family life, or discussions of science."
Whereas I was one of the posters that gave what is probably considered a compassionate reply I in no way think that ones 'should' be like me or do as I do. We are all different with different experiences and pasts. I don't consider this site as some type of field service territory just on the other side of the coin. 'Preaching' and 'converting' the JWs to be non-JWs. It just sounds like the same shirt different color. But some do. And so what. We are different that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The negativity is not compatible with me in allot of ways but I can see that just like Left Behind was hurting and acting on that pain, so were allot of the posters. Am I some type of judge to say who is right and who is wrong. Absolutly not!! I tried to put down that judgment rod I was carrying when I left JWs.
To all the people who are still hurting because of JWs and any religion rather they are in it still or not ... may your journey continue to heal you.
It's only human nature to attack when feeling that we, or our ideals / opinions, are attacked.
That being said, I do think that some threads take an unhealthy turn to bitterness and personal attacks at times - which is one of the reasons I took a long break from here - not that anyone in particular attacked or offended me, but because I felt it was stirring up anger and feelings I wanted to leave behind!
Just my opinion,
Bull!
Sometimes I see posts that are a little too mean-spirited and could give the wrong impression to newbies. It would be nice if we could all try hard to reason with people and debate them instead of stooping to harsh attacks lumping all JWs into one evil group.
However, in this case, this new poster came in just for the sole purpose of a hit and run attack. They pretty much set themselves up for what they got. I tried to check my anger in my post and was hoping to try to get them to reason on things a little(if they were lurking). But they made it clear that that wasn't why they were here and some people took offense to their accusations and retaliated in kind.
