Does a person know if he has been saved? (page 4)

JamesThomas

Saved? Saved from what? Saved from being treated as worthless by your own god? Saved from getting what I will get because I have no faith or need for Jesus? What will my punishment be? What evil does your god have in store for me?

Who in their right mind can truly, honestly and sincerely love a deity who threatens them with some form of punishment if you do not love them?

Salvation is a gift, not a reward or bribe!

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Main Entry: 1 gift

Pronunciation: 'gift

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse, something given, talent; akin to Old English giefan to give

1 : a notable capacity, talent, or endowment

2 : something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

3 : the act, right, or power of giving

Without compensation! If this were true, if it were a gift without need of compensation, then we all are saved no-matter if we accept Jesus or not. Let's be honest, it's not a gift. It's a reward for only those who jump through the flaming hoop.

Most Christians -- if they had the power -- would save all mankind from suffering without the need to be acknowledged, or accepted, or known, or worshipped. They would do it anonymously out of the kindness of their own heart; end of story. But not Jesus! Nooooo. In order to win the prize you must bow to his needy ego with acceptance and acknowledgment. Sad, how so many people worship an idea of god who has lower morals, kindness, compassion, and divine attributes than their own.

I wonder, is the true God so small and diminutive as to be less than most people? Or is it our ideas and beliefs gleamed from an old book which are so lacking?

If someone quotes me a scripture, I'm going to puke.

j

JamesThomas

I would like to add that though it seems I am disrespectful of Jesus, I am not. Whether he existed or not, I feel a deep understanding of the wisdom that gave rise to the form of Jesus, in our culture. For many a year I called Him "Master", and the guidance which arouse from that helped me to see the divine nature of all things.

The Christ

There is a pool without shores

a depth-less crystalline purity

an indescribable holiness

which moves not

yet sees and embraces all

It is without judgment

and carries no burden of interpretation

or thought

It is empty of everything

nothing taints it

or blemishes it

yet all moves through it

from the most lovely

to the most unsightly

It is pristine beyond imagining

and can not be described

for to think of it

is to veil it

with a rough fabric of words

no matter how poetic or how sweet

It is too vast

too beautiful

to look upon

yet it can be lived

for it looks out your eyes

right now

Be still

and know

what unites everyone

and everything

Be still

and know...

I scribbled this out the other day, again attempting to say what can not be spoken.

j

Scully

mdb:

You should care. Salvation is not for this life as you seem to think, but about your eternal destiny. Are you sure you're willing to throw eternal life away? All men will have to give an account to God one day. At that time, when it's too late, I'm sure you won't have the same attitude. I hope that in that moment, you won't have the regret of tossing away God's free gift to you. He died for you.

Having to account for something at a later time doesn't sound like a "free gift" to me. It sounds like "bait and switch". Or an ad for a special rate on a new credit card.

If the life I'm living isn't good enough for "God" (assuming there is one), oh well. That would make "God" NOT the kind of "God" I'd really want to get to know in the first place.

As far as my "attitude" goes, if "God" finds it so offensive and sinful, he/she/it can't be much of a "God". So much for God's All-Encompassing Forgiveness™.

Deputy Dog

Don't be sorry about my being jaded and cynical. Like I said, I'm happier than I ever have been in my life.

Satanus

JT

If someone quotes me a scripture, I'm going to puke.

Lol. Hay, you're ok.

S

heathen

I think the fact that we have free will lets God off the hook for tyranny . There are some countries in the world that would execute JT for comments he made if he made them about the government . I don't think loving your neighbor or praying and worship are too much to ask . Trying to better yourself is not evil . The jews had it alot harder and still maintained a relationship for a couple thousand years .

JamesThomas

Yes, and while the good Christians are "loving your neighbor or praying and worship", the god they worship is figuring out how he is going to "execute JT for comments he made". Is it just me, or is all this insane?

j

Cordelia

i think you cant get away from the scriptures in the bible that talk about being saved, guess thats why born agains go on about it so much,

i remember doing a demo from the k ministry that the householder asked 'was i saved' and i said 'if you mean do i believe that jesus is my savior then yes i do but i also think that i have to prove myself till the time i am judged (he who endures to the end is the one that will be saved)

now i dont know what the hell to think!!

heathen

Well JT , I guess you won't lose out on suffering in any case . You have to suffer for him or he will make you suffer ,so that's your choice . People have suffered over less ironically .

cordelia -- actually that's was a pretty good reply . The dubs don't believe in once saved always saved and the bible does not say it either but as you stated you must endure and show integrity to the bitter end before you can be saved .

I certainly don't like to judge God because that will get you nowhere , trying to understand might help .

JamesThomas

You have to suffer for him or he will make you suffer ,so that's your choice

??? What I interpret you saying here is your god causes the suffering, and yet it's my choice? What, is my choice? According to what it seems you are saying, He, is holding all the cards.

j

heathen

JT--- looks like you got the idea . I look at it as, it's not when you die but how .

Does a person know if he has been saved?

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