Looking for secular proof for 609 BC...

by AuldSoul 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    According to Wikipedia, 609 BC was the year Assyria fell. Viewing Jeremiah from the standpoint of the world powers, it makes perfect sense that the 70 years would apply to Babylon's ascendancy as the Isaiah's Prochecy book stated, instead of applying to Jerusalem.

    *** ip-1 chap. 19 pp. 253-254 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***
    “She Must Return to Her Hire”
    21 Isaiah goes on to prophesy: “It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king.” (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will “be forgotten.” True to the prophecy, for the duration of “one king”—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble. What will then happen to Tyre?
    22 Isaiah continues: “At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of a prostitute: ‘Take a harp, go around the city, O forgotten prostitute. Do your best at playing on the strings; make your songs many, in order that you may be remembered.’ And it must occur at the end of seventy years that Jehovah will turn his attention to Tyre, and she must return to her hire and commit prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth upon the surface of the ground.”—Isaiah 23:15b-17.
    23 Following the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E., Phoenicia becomes a satrapy of the Medo-Persian Empire. The Persian monarch, Cyrus the Great, is a tolerant ruler. Under this new rulership, Tyre will resume her former activity and try hard to regain recognition as a world commercial center—just as a prostitute who has been forgotten and has lost her clientele seeks to attract new clients by going around the city, playing her harp and singing her songs. Will Tyre succeed? Yes, Jehovah will grant her success. In time, the island-city will become so prosperous that toward the end of the sixth century B.C.E., the prophet Zechariah will say: “Tyre proceeded to build a rampart for herself, and to pile up silver like dust and gold like the mire of the streets.”—Zechariah 9:3.

    Can it be any more plain? 609 BC Assyria fell to Baylon. 539 BC Babylon fell to the Persians. 70 years. For Babylon. And that understanding is exactly what is applied to Tyre. Different nation come under that domination at different times DURING the 70 years of Jeremiah, which applied to the period of Babylon's greatest dominion—NOT to Jerusalem's subjugation. According to celebrated WT scholars.

    AuldSoul

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    I need secular proof texts for 609 BC being the year of Nabopolassar's conquest. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

    AuldSoul

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep

    Sorry I can't go over all of this right now, but perhaps there's something here.

    http://www.robotwisdom.com/science/chaldeans.html#pol

  • SeymourButts
    SeymourButts

    The Babylonian chronicle for the years 615-609bc tells of the fall of Nineveh. BM21901. See the book of Nahum. This chronicle records that the army of Egypt had come to help Assyria (at the battle of Carchemish). The bible tells us that Pharaoh Neco was going to fight along side Assyria when Josiah went to Megiddo to cut him off. This proved to be a fatal mistake for Josiah (2 Kings 23:29) BM 21901


    The chronicle for the events between 622 to 617 is missing. This tablet covers the period from 616 to 608 and opens with the Medes having made their appearance as the leaders of the anti-Assyrian coalition. The Egyptians, on the other hand, have now joined forces with the weakened Assyrians to thwart the threat of the Medo-Bababylonian alliance. In 614, the Medes capture the Assyrian city Assur. Nabopolassar arrives to offer his assistance, but arrives after the city is fallen. The two kings, Kyaxares of the Medes and Nabopolassar form an alliance and set out in conquest. In 612, after three months of siege, the two kings sack Nineveh. The Assyrians make a last ditch effort in Harran to maintain their civilization. Yet despite tremendous Egyptian assistance, the attempt was a failure and the Assyrians are lost forever.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    There are several ways to establish the 16th year of Nabopolassar (the date of the capture of Harran according to B.M. 21901, which occurred between the months of Marcheswan and Adar, i.e. between October 15, 610 and March 15, 609) as falling on the calendar year of 610/609 BC.

    • The Hillah Stele (Nabon. No. 8) records an astronomical observation that occurred between 31 May and 4 June 555 BC in Nabonidus' first regnal year. It notes repairs to a temple in Harran that had been devastated by Umman-manda (Medes) some 54 years earlier. This event is the sack of Harran known from B.M. 21901, and the Hillah Stele fixes 609 BC (i.e. 555 + 54 = 609) as the 16th year of Nabopolassar when the temple was destroyed (cf. Nabon. H 1, B which also fixes this event in the 16th year of Nabonidus).
    • The Adda-Guppi Stele (Nabon. H 1, B) mentions the Queen Mother's death in the 9th year of Nabonidus (cf. also B.M. 35382), at the age of 104. She was born in the 20th year of Assurbanipal, king of Assyria, and the stele mentions the sequence of kings that followed: "until the 42nd year of Assurbanipal, the 3rd year of Assur-etillu-ili his son, the 21st year of Nabopolassar, the 43rd year of Neriglissar, etc." Thus 104 years stretches from the 20th year of Assurbanipal to the 9th year of Nabonidus. Counting backwards from 555 BC as the first year of Nabonidus (8 years before Adda-Guppi's death in the 9th year of Nabonidus), the 20th year of Assurbanipal would thus be 651 BC. The 42nd year of Assurbanipal would have then been in 629 BC, the first year of Assur-etillu-ili in 628 BC, Assur-etillu-ili's third year in 626 BC, the first year of Nabopolassar in 625 BC, and the 16th year in 609 BC (625 - 16 = 609).
    • The business records of the Egibi banking family show that 81 years span between the 3rd year of Nebuchadnezzer to the first year of Darius Hystaspis. Since the latter had his first regnal reign in 521 BC (Insight, Vol. 1, p. 148; 15 January 1986 Watchtower, p. 7), the 3rd year of Nebuchadnezzer would have been in 602 BC (521 + 81 = 602), fixing his first year in 604 BC. Since Nabopolassar reigned for 21 years (cf. Nabon. H 1, B; B.M. 21946), his 16th year would have been in 609 BC (604 + 5 = 609).
    • VAT 4956 dates astronomical observations from Nisan 1 of the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzer to Nisan 1 of the 38th year of Nebuchadnezzer. These observations could only have been made in 568/567 BC within the past several thousand years. This fixes 568 BC as the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzer, placing his first year in 604 BC (568 + 65 = 604) and the 16th year of Nabopolassar in 609 BC.
    • B.M. 32312 records an astronomical observation dated to the year in which the Babylonian king fought in a battle at Hirit on the 27th day of Adar. B.M. 86379 dates this very same battle (on the 27th of Adar at Hirit) to the 16th year of Shamash-shuma-ukin. According to B.M. 32312, Shamash-shuma-ukin reigned for 20 years, followed by Kandalanu for 22 years, and Nabopolassar for 21 years. The astronomical observations made on the tablet could only have occurred on 652/51 BC, and the Battle of Hirit on 27 Adar 651 BC. This means that the 20th year of Shamash-shuma-ukin would have been in 648 BC, the first year of Kandalanu in 647 BC, the 22nd year of Kandalanu in 626 BC, the first year of Nabopolassar in 625 BC, and the 16th year of Nabopolassar in 609 BC.
    • LBART 1419 gives lunar eclipse data in 18 year intervals, fixing the chronology of the whole period. Thus it states that Cyrus' second year was 18 years after Nabonidus' first year, which was 18 years after Nebuchadnezzer's 32nd year, which was 18 years after Nebuchadnezzer's 14th year, which had 18 years after Nabopolassar's 17th year. This means that 72 years extend between Cyrus' second year and the 17th year of Nabopolassar. Since Cyrus' first year began in 538 BC (cf. Insight, Vol. 1, p. 568), Nabopolassar's 17th year would have been in 609/608 BC (538 + 71 = 609), which again would place the 16th year as the year before: 610/609 BC.
  • VM44
    VM44

    Hi Leolaia,

    According to The Watchtower, each and every one of your evidences is in error, has been misunderstood, or altered over time.

    The year 607BCE, which has no evidence at all to support it, is correct according to The Watchtower, because it allows an Adventist-type of calculation to give the year 1914, the year that gives the basis for all Watchtower authority.

    The Watchtower even tries to support the 607 year by creating a false conflict, claiming the year 607 is supported by the Bible, and that there is disagreement between the Bible and secular historical evidence.

    This is a pure propaganada technique that The Watchtower is reduced to using, as there is no conflict at all between secular history and the Bible in this case.

    --VM44

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Thank you so much, Leolaia!

    I think I can work from this. Do you have references that I should cite besides just the texts themselves?

    AuldSoul

  • Legolas
  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    If you want to cite a neutral secular source, you might want to go to a university library and look up these texts in the following books:

    The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, by Edwin Richard Thiele (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1951).

    Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, vol. 5 of Texts from Cuneiform Sources, by A. K. Grayson, series ed. A. Leo Oppenheim et al. (Locust Valley, NY: J. J. Augustin Publisher, 1975).

    Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan (Princeton: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998).

  • belbab
    belbab

    Auld Soul,

    Can I refer you to the Celebrated One, namely, Scholar.

    Scholar, Scholar, where are you?

    We need you, honest.

    belbab, popcorn anyone?

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