Hi BB,
I hope that when you respond, you'll refrain from using the "new light" speech.
Something that's supposedly divine shouldn't use the excuse of 'outdated' publications. Alls fair in using them to show what they teach/taught.
Thank you.
BeepBeep Needs to Know About 1975!!!
by SWALKER 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Dune
May, probably, perhaps, might, could, possibly, very well, can, almost
These words Guarantee that the WTS cant be held accountable for failures.
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Beep,Beep
Let me start by once again thanking you for starting this thread. I have not yet figured out how to do so, but then to be honest I have tried to yet either.
That said, I realize that 1975 has generated a lot of animosity and I'm sorry if it feels like I'm trying to stir up trouble.
I have read all the quotes provided here, repeatedly. However none of them have a single clear statement that says "1975 was going to it" the end was going to occur in 1975.
Would all here agree that if it is something Jehovah's Witnesses teach and believe, one would be able to find a multitude of articles supporting/explaining why ?
Whether you agree with the teaching or not, there are many articles that define/explain/support the teaching about the 144,000. The same can be said for Jesus/Michael and what hell is and isn't. If it's been taught, there has been support in the literature. Why is such an abundance missing about 1975 ? Even if it's not included on the latest CD-Rom, there are still plenty of bound volumes with matching indexes out there. I've seen one collection that went back to the early 50's. It's difficult to make such disappear.
So, if it was so clearly taught, not my words but those of one who convinced me to go looking, where is it taught ?
? Where can I find a single clear, concise sentence that states the end was going to happen in 1975 ?
On my search for such a statement I was given a list of questions by one who was trying to convince me that such a search would be fruitless. I have no answers to these questions and when I asked them to others the only answer I got was "C.Y.A.", cover your ass. Not a very satisfying answer. Maybe some one here can come up with a better answer .
1. If it were truly taught that 1975 was going to be the end, why announce district conventions for 1976 at the 1975 ones ?
2. Knowing that a lot of long term work and planning is involved in making arrangements for district conventions, including making arrangements for the use of stadiums and coliseums, etc., why make them if you truly taught and believe the end was going to occur before you could use them ?
3. While I'm not sure of the exact number of magazines printed then, but if 1975 was being taught as the end why produce what would have to have been an overabundance considering the number of Witnesses then ? Why produce magazines for October, November, and December of 1975 since the governments were going to be gone and there would be no way to deliver them ?
4. If it was really being taught that the end was coming in 1975, why were so many congregations building new Kingdom Halls ? I check on this locally and within a 200 mile radius six congregations were planning, starting, or just finishing new halls.
5. Why start the next class of Gilead school since they wouldn't be needed if it was being taught that the end was coming in 1975. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe these groups graduate in the spring and the fall of the year, so in reality even the group that would have graduated in the spring really wouldn't have been needed.
So there you have it. As I stated earlier, the only answer I have ever seen to these questions is
"Cover Your Ass". While that might satisfy those who do not agree with Jehovah's Witnesses, for those who are wavering it's not. At least I don't find it very compelling. Anyone have a better answer ?
Hence, as I said I find the claim that 1975 was taught to be the "END" to be a bust.
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yesidid
*** Watchtower 1966 October 15 pp.628-9 Rejoicing over "God's Sons of Liberty" Spiritual Feast ***
[Emphasis Added]
Only a liberated people can preach a release to captives, conventioners were told in the speech "Preach a Release to the Captives," which thrilled them with its hopeful outlook. "Jehovah, the God of freedom and liberty, has freed his people from Babylonish bondage and has given them a work of liberation to do. That work of liberation and salvation must go on to the finish! To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God," announced President Knorr, "a new book in English, entitled 'Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God,' has been published." At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home !*** Awake! October 8 1966 pp.19-20 ***
'How Much Longer Will It Be?'
6,000 Years Completed in 1975 … In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975… Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance. Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history, we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that same year Eve could well have been created, directly after which God's rest day commenced … There is another chronological indication that we are rapidly nearing the closing time for this wicked system of things. It is the fact that shortly, according to reliable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will come to an end.. After six thousand years of toil and bondage to sin, sickness, death and Satan, mankind is due to enjoy a rest and is in dire need of a rest. (Heb. 4:1-11) Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance.. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975. This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the 'last days' began in 1914, and that the physical facts of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the 'time of the end.'
*** Watchtower 1966 October 15 p.631 Rejoicing over "God's Sons of Liberty" Spiritual Feast ***
THE YEAR 1975
At the Baltimore assembly Brother Franz in his closing remarks made some interesting comments regarding the year 1975. He began casually by saying, "Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said, 'Say, what does this 1975 mean? Does it mean this, that or any other thing?'" In part, Brother Franz went on to say: 'You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God]. It shows that 6,000 years of human experience will end in 1975, about nine years from now. What does that mean? Does it mean that God's rest day began 4026 B.C.E.? It could have. The Life Everlasting book does not say it did not. The book merely presents the chronology. You can accept it or reject it. If that is the case, what does that mean to us? [He went into some length showing the feasibility of the 4026 B.C.E. date as being the beginning of God's rest day.]
'What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?' asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.
'When we were approaching the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, there was no sign that the Gentile Times were going to end. Conditions on earth gave us no hint of what was to come, even as late as June of that year. Then suddenly there was a murder. World War I broke out. You know the rest. Famines, earthquakes and pestilences followed, as Jesus foretold would happen.
'But what do we have today as we approach 1975? Conditions have not been peaceful. We've been having world wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences and we have these conditions still as we approach 1975. Do these things mean something? These things mean that we're in the "time of the end." And the end has to come sometime. Jesus said: "As these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near." (Luke 21:28) So we know that as we come to 1975 our deliverance is that much nearer.'
"Let us make the most of the time and get in all the good hard work to Jehovah while the opportunity affords," he urged.
[Emphasis Added]
*** Watchtower 1967 May 1 p.262 Where Are We According to God's Timetable? ***
THE END OF 6,000 YEARS
In examining these Scriptural facts, something else also captures our attention. According to Bible chronology, we are already over fifty-two years into the wicked system of things' "time of the end." That time began in the autumn of 1914 C.E., at the termination of the "appointed times of the nations," and it is already far advanced. Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. The generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still be members of "this generation" alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked system of things in both heaven and earth. (Luke 21:32, 33) How much longer will it be, then, before God takes action to destroy the wicked and usher in the blessings of his Kingdom rule?
Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see. Yet of this we can be certain: the generation that Jesus said would witness those events is nearing its close. The time is close at hand. On God's "timetable" we are in the closing days of a wicked system of things that will soon be gone forever. A glorious new order is immediately before us. This is, therefore, good reason for Christians everywhere to rejoice. Yes, they rejoice because fulfillment of their prayers for the kingdom of God is now at hand.-Luke 21:28.
Therefore, keep in mind the admonition of the Lord Jesus when speaking of our day: "Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36) The prophecy is sure; the time is short.
[Emphasis Added]
*** Our Kingdom Ministry March 1968 p.4 ***
Making some special effort to do more than the usual helps us live up to our dedication. In view of the short period of time left, we want to do this as often as circumstances permit. Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed… Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more.
[Emphasis Added]
These are just a few samples. I suggest you go to Quotes site and read them for yourself. http://quotes.watchtower.ca/1975.htm
On a personal level I know a DO who was demoted because he would not tow the party line and whip everyone into a frenzy about 1975. They had to send another DO in to undo the "damage" he created.
CO's would start their Tuesday congregation visits by asking "How many months to go now, brothers?" The correct answer, of course, was however many months remained until September 1975.
This, my friend is not heresay. I was there. I heard it. I saw it.
yesidid
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lonelysheep
So, because they 'covered their asses' in case they were wrong by building KH's and having classes graduate from gilead......then the fact that they actually taught this 1975 issue makes it okay?!?!
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Beep,Beep
Lonelysheep,
I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything but I think you missed the point. It's those who continue to claim that 1975 was indeed taught to be the end that say this is just a "cover your ass" ploy. That's a non answer.
Stop and think about this one. If it was really taught and believed that the end was going to occur in 1975, why start a building project that spring ? Why go through the work of finding property, checking on the zoning requirements, obtaining permits, meeting the legal challenges of those who would soon find a Kingdom Hall in their neighborhood, ect,ect ? I mean if it was truly being taught and believed that 1975 was going to be the end, why not just wait until Jan 1st 1976 ?
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mrsjones5
Stop and think about this one. If it was really taught and believed that the end was going to occur in 1975, why start a building project that spring ? Why go through the work of finding property, checking on the zoning requirements, obtaining permits, meeting the legal challenges of those who would soon find a Kingdom Hall in their neighborhood, ect,ect ? I mean if it was truly being taught and believed that 1975 was going to be the end, why not just wait until Jan 1st 1976 ?
Because they were talking out of both sides of their mouths. They were telling the rank and file one thing and doing other things behind the scenes. In other words they were LYING!! What I find so funny is that you would find it so hard to believe.Josie
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mrsjones5
""Well, now, uh, we have not said, that nineteen seventy five, uh, will mark the end of this visible organization of satan the devil. We're not making any such prediction as that.""
That's called a "we made a big boo boo and we're covering our collective asses" lol
If you read closely they are admitting to making a statement about 1975 - look very close lol
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rebel8
Where can I find a single clear, concise sentence that states the end was going to happen in 1975 ?
There is not one. You are correct it was never stated clearly. There were lots of hints.
My recommendation is to stop focusing on the fact that the WTS didn't come out and print that 1975 would be The End. The point is they did a LOT of reprehensible, unforgivable things regarding 1975 that prove they are not inspired by an infallible God; they should not get off on a technicality.
1. They knew very well that JWs were believing 1975 was going to be The End. They printed examples of it in the literature-people quitting their jobs, selling their houses, etc. Responsible representatives of a loving infallible God would have printed a strong message stating in no uncertain terms the time of the end is unknown, instead of praising people for quitting their jobs and continually printing hints about the Biblical significance of 1975. (My mother was studying in 1974 and was told Armageddon would come by fall of 1975, so not to worry about the kids missing XMas because the New System would be here by then. What did the Society do to stop JWs from teaching such lies? Instead of telling them the truth, they filled their heads with a bunch of hints and innuendo.)
2. This is the most important thing to know. Their failure to list 1975 as the sure date of Armageddon does not get them off the hook for printing very real false prophecies. Below I am pasting a false prophecy. There is no way anyone can say the following article was accurate.
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.
It's now about 35 years since this article was printed. People have grown old in "this system" despite being told they wouldn't. People have "fulfilled careers in this system" despite being told they wouldn't.