reading Proclaimers book

MerryMagdalene

A very loyal and loving JW requested that I read the book Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, sincerely confident that it will lay to rest all my objections and convince me this is indeed God's Organization to which I must return right away.

Ok, I WILL read it, but only because it's my mother that asked it of me, and she has tried so hard to be tolerant and understanding of where I am coming from as regards my firm stand in not returning.

I thought I would post my notes along the way in case they would be useful to someone else, and if anyone wants to add their own thoughts and notes I would be grateful. So, here goes:

Chapter 1--WHY SHOULD JEHOVAH HAVE WITNESSES?

Why indeed? since all references to such in the Bible are pre-Christian and refer to Israelites being witnesses that their God, YHWH, is THE God, the one God, the only God, and in a contractual relationship with them. This can be found in only 3 verses of which I am aware (KJV): Isaiah 43:10, 12; Isaiah 44:8. Are they Jehovah's Christian Witnesses? or Jehovah's pre-Christian Witnesses? Is there a difference?

After Jesus' arrival worshippers of the one God were to be witnesses of Jesus, as found in these 9 verses (KJV): Luke 24:48; Acts 1:8; 2:38; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39; 10:41; 13:31; Hebrews 12:1.

Moving on...

*Proclaimers quote (page 10 paragraph 2):

"The principal victims of religious persecution in the United States in the twentieth century were the Jehovah's Witnesses," says the book The Court and the Constitution, by Archibald Cox (1987).

Ironic that this quote was submitted by Barbara Anderson, the leading researcher for the Proclaimers book from 1989 to 1991, a JW from 1954 to 1998. To quote her on the matter of JWs and persecution:

"This once oppressed group has gone from being the oppressed to being the oppressor. "They demanded and received religious tolerance; they demanded and were guaranteed freedom of speech; they demanded and won the right to practice their religion the way they saw fit; they demanded the recognition of freedom of conscience; yet they forbid their members to practice any of these civil and God-given rights. They silence freedom of speech. They silence dissent. How? By using fear as a weapon. The fear of excommunication or disfellowshipping with its severe life-altering sanction, that of shunning..." http://www.freeminds.org/women/defendingtruth.htm

And she should know. She was disfellowshipped in 2002 after challenging Watch Tower Society policies and practices that endanger children by protecting child molestors and abusers.

Jehovah's Sovereignty Challenged

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/42676/1.ashx

*Proclaimers quote (page 11 paragraph 2):

It was a literal tree, but God employed it for a symbolic purpose.

They know this how? The same way they know the 6 days of creation are not literal?

Early Witnesses of Jehovah

I have no problem with anyone in the Bible who served God being considered a witness of His existance, His might, His faithfulness to promises and contracts, His love and mercy, etc. But I do have a problem with their backing this up with misapplication of scripture just to try to justify why they call themselves by a name Rutherford chose in 1935 to help distinguish the Bible Students who were loyal to his teachings from those who remained loyal to Russell's teachings. ("The person faithful in what is least..." etc.--Luke 16:10)

*Proclaimers quote (page 13 paragraph 3):

"We have so great a cloud [Gr. ne'phos, denoting a cloud mass] of witnesses surrounding us." (Heb.12:1) This 'cloud mass' of witnesses began forming shortly after rebellion against God's sovereignty in Eden.

Isn't it enough to say that there were a lot of people (and possibly angels) around the early Christians who were able to bear witness to the strength of their faith, as indicated in Hebrews 11:39? In my opinion, they really shouldn't have brought up this notion about all God's past "witnesses" being like a cloud around the present ones unless they are willing to concede that the human soul is immortal.

*Proclaimers quote (page 13 paragraph 4):

At Hebrews 11:4, Paul identifies Abel as the first witness of Jehovah, saying: "By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than Cain, through which faith he had witness born to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness respecting his gifts..."

Grammar is not my strong point, so tell me if I am mistaken, but check the subject of the sentence again. This isn't saying that Abel was God's first witness, but that God was Abel's witness--a witness to his faith. And I should trust the WTS to interpret and teach scripture--why?
____________________________________________________________________________

Well, that's all I got.Is it bedtime yet?

It sure does remind me, though, how painful personal study was as a young born-in JW...I could never seem to read more than a few sentances or paragraphs without becoming very annoyed with what I was reading and having lots of questions arise in my mind that were annoying to others.

Hope I haven't annoyed anyone here with this...

~Merry (XMas)

AlmostAtheist

You're going to wade through that whole tome? Wow, I pity you.

And you can envy us! We're all going to get to enjoy your dismantling of it!

Please, go on...

Dave

MerryMagdalene

Thanks, Dave. I honestly have no idea how far through it I'll get. There are some things I just don't have a lot of tolerance for or interest in addressing, but a few things here and there that I think might be worth bringing up. I do hope someone enjoys it...and you never know what might help those who have doubts and questions of their own...

~Merry

ringo5

Here's a good one about truth and obligation...

Accepting the Responsibility

What an honor it is to bear the name of the only true God, the Sovereign of the universe! But with that name goes responsibility. It is a responsibility that other religious groups do not want. As Brother Rutherford said in his discourse: “Happy are they that can take a name that nobody under the sun wants except those who are wholly and unreservedly devoted to Jehovah.” Yet, how fitting it is that Jehovah’s servants bear God’s personal name, that they make it known, and that it be prominently associated with the proclamation of his purpose!

Any group or individuals that speak in the name of Jehovah put themselves under obligation to convey his word truthfully. (Jer. 23:26-28

*** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

In the lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” delivered by J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York City, attention was directed to the year 1925. On what basis was it thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925. On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward by 1925. This year also was associated with expectations for resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly Kingdom. If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others

AuldSoul

MerryMagdelene,

Very well thought out. Thanks for bringing that to the forum. Are you going to go chapter by chapter for as long as you can hold out?

AuldSoul

Ticker

Thats gonna be alot of boring disecting. lol

Ticker

ackack

Perhaps try reading it alongside Penton's Apocalypse Delayed. That could be interesting. :)

Find all the funnies in the Proclaimer's book that don't quite match up with reality.

ackack

jwfacts

I was just starting to have doubts when this book came out. I could barely make myself read it. Every page, every experience seemed to me to be proving it was an organisation led by men not by holy spirit. I doubt it will help your faith in the least, but rather prove beyond doubt how wrong it all is.

However, i know JWs who think it is great, it shows to them what a remarkable and honest org the WTS is.

misspeaches

Merry! First of all accept my condolances having to read that book... The things we do for our family. You must really love your mum...

And secondly thank you for posting your analysis of the book as you go. Personally I found your first part very interesting. I do hope you continue to update the rest of us lazy bums with the rest of the things you discover in this thread!

YOU GO GIRL!

drew sagan

You will find much in the book that leaves you probably more frustrated than before you opened it's pages. No self written history book will ever divulge all the facts about a particular group. By showing kindness towards you mother, and by living your life in such a way as to show that you really love God may be the only way to reach her. Keep on in your studies, you are doing well.

reading Proclaimers book

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