need help from all ex j.w's please

by miss_ellie 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Panda
    Panda

    Every celebration and celebration symbol derives from some earlier ancestors celebration (often called pagan ). The symbols we use: christmas tree, lights,Santa (you better be good) are traditions taken mainly from Germany by Queen Victoria in order to honor her German husband Prince Albert.

    The date for Christmas marked the astronomical occaision of the days getting longer (so the god Tammuz was rising again) I'm thinking that would be a Persian origin. So when Christians decided that the birth of the Sun should become the birth of God's son, well, heck, Saturnalia was as good as any date (Dec.25th) and people were already used to this date for winter celebrations.

    Basically we are continuing the ancient holidays of seasonal changes. (so you don't have to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas) It's fun , and if this holiday makes people act nicer even for awhile I say bring Christmas on we need some bright days.

  • Curious Christian
    Curious Christian

    I'm not a JW, but would love to know why it such a horrible thing to celebrate Christmas, but every JW I know seems to LOVE to celebrate anniversaries? I mean, aren't they the BIRTH of a marriage? What about all the paganism used in weddings? The rings, the wedding party, the way we dress, the eating of the cake, etc....all has pagan origins. And the drinking! Don't forget that. I mean, my JW friends rarely miss a Margarita Monday, yet you can find all kinds of references in the Bible of how drinking has had horrible consequences--even the curse of an entire race. -Gen. 9:23 Don't forget incest-Gen.19:34-35 Murder-2 Sam.13:28 Even today, look how many people die as a direct result of drinking! And if you want to go a little further with it, every JW that I personally know has a cat. Not many people in the Western world know the pagan origins of Christmas, but I haven't met too many who have not heard of cats being worshipped as gods in ancient civilizations. They were even mummified and laid in tombs with Kings! From what I have read in the Bible, TRUE idolatry is a problem with the heart. It's what we DO with objects and how we View them that makes them idolatrous. -Deut. 11:16; Job 31:26-28. Christians have the laws of God inscribed in their hearts-Jer.31:33; 2Cor.3:3; Heb. 10:16. As for celebrating holidays, Romans 14:5-6 and Col. 2:16-17 allows us the freedom in making that choice for ourselves. If you are sitting in front of the Christmas tree and all of the sudden you feel like you love it more than God, then by all means, get rid of it! My brother was in the military and for 3 years straight, the only time we got to see him was on Christmas. We cherish those memories and thank God for them. What is wrong with that? It's all about love. Love for our Saviour, love for our family. Against such things, there is no law. Many employers give their employees the day off to celebrate holidays, and not usually on the exact date of the holiday itself, does that mean the JWs go on in to work? Or do they take the day off like the rest of the "world"? I just don't get the double standard. Maybe you could ask your ex-husband some of these questions for me, because I am just dying to know who makes these rules and why so many people allow a bunch of guys in a religious organization to brow beat them into missing precious time with their families?! Please ask him on my behalf, because I just don't get it. I am not being sarcastic, I really want to know. God bless you and Merry Christmas!

  • MsMcDucket
    MsMcDucket

    The dubs told me it was wrong. Said it was pagan. Hell, I didn't know what pagan meant, but it was bad. So, I stopped celebrating Christmas. Now, I think pagan schmagan (whatever); I'm going to celebrate it. I am not a dub. The dub's feel that all of christendom are pagan, so you can't win.

    I don't think I'm worshipping a tree. I think it's a decoration, and if you've got the time and the energy to put one up. Do it!

  • floss
    floss

    I thought that the church itself banned christmas on the grounds that it was pagan.

    regardless of that,i really do not want to be brainwashed into having to buy gifts for my children to prove that i love them

    i can buy gifts anytime not just because it is christmas.

    also the other people you buy for ,family etc,sometimes you only see them once a year,

    christmas has nothing to do with religion at all.

    you are just lining someone elses pockets.

    season of good will !!, no,just 2 days of good will but that is pushing it.

    people getting into debt,domestic abuse,people with no money feeling guilty that they cannot afford gifts.

    open your eyes.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Pagan, What's pagan??? Everything is pagan, a cat, a wedding ring, everything is to someone. It is a lame excuse made to separate JWs from everyone else.

    Remember that for half it's history the WTS celebrated Christmas despite it being pagan. Something is only pagan if that is what someone thinks it is. A Christian does not think it pagan, does not think of winter solists and evergreen trees waking the sun. What they worship is the birth of the Son of God. How is that pagan?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Welcome, floss.

    I thought that the church itself banned christmas on the grounds that it was pagan.

    Are you talking the church corporate, or a few denominations?

    regardless of that,i really do not want to be brainwashed into having to buy gifts for my children to prove that i love them

    Luk 11:11-13

    But of whom of you that is a father shall a son ask bread, and the father shall give him a stone? or also a fish, and instead of a fish shall give him a serpent? or if also he shall ask an egg, shall give him a scorpion? If therefore *ye*, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    It is not "brainwashing" to give good gifts to our children. It's a natural desire born out of love.

    i can buy gifts anytime not just because it is christmas.

    Do you? Tell me, has it been easy for your children to "adjust" to being left out among their peers this time of year? Should your children have to "adjust"?

    also the other people you buy for ,family etc,sometimes you only see them once a year,

    How often do you see your non-JW family? If it weren't like calendar dates like Christmas, would you see them at all? By the way, I am frugal and selective in my gift-giving, and I prefer gifts from the heart over everything. Some years I've received a hand-drawn picture from my son. I hang it proudly. It's a gift of love.

    christmas has nothing to do with religion at all.

    If I sing Christmas carols in praise of my Lord and King, Jesus Christ, is it barred from Heaven's gates because I choose to do so at this time of year?

    you are just lining someone elses pockets.

    You assume that I am purchasing items from the store. Most of my gifts are home-made.

    season of good will !!, no,just 2 days of good will but that is pushing it.

    When do the Jehovah's Witnesses have a season of good will? I've been in association with them for five years, and I'm still waiting. You can check around. I practice the joy of giving year-round.

    people getting into debt,domestic abuse,people with no money feeling guilty that they cannot afford gifts.

    My Christmases are not like that. I notice you did not make reference to any bible commands on the matter, but you brought up some secular examples of excess. Do you, as a JW, avoid Christmas because it is God-commanded, or because you just don't like it for the reasons you listed?

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    I loved Christmas as a kid but by the time I was 22 I pretty much hated the whole entire world, and JWism, with it's rejection of holidays, military service, and the like made me feel like I was very pure and above it all.

    I have now re-embraced Christmas, not as a religious holiday, but as a fun winter festival with pretty lights and gifts and food and family. It's all good to me.

  • Super_Becka
    Super_Becka
    I'm not a JW, but would love to know why it such a horrible thing to celebrate Christmas

    My thoughts exactly - I have yet to understand what exactly makes Christmas such a horrible, reprehensible thing. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I want to know what's to wrong about it?? Is praising the Lord so horrible?? And spending time with friends and family and exchanging gifts?? How about praying for peace on Earth and goodwill to man?? Are all of these things so terrible that God would condemn because we celebrate them?? And as for worshipping Jesus, I believe in the Trinity, and there is a verse in the Bible, I'm not sure what it is exactly right now, that states that in honouring the Son, we are honouring the Father, so for me, that makes Christmas perfectly acceptable in God's eyes.

    I won't even get into the whole hypocrisy/pagan practices, I have another thread on that one, take a look, see what others are saying about things that are permitted in the WTS that are as pagan as praying to Athena for victory in war.

    MsMcDucket said:

    The dub's feel that all of christendom are pagan, so you can't win.

    I don't think I'm worshipping a tree. I think it's a decoration, and if you've got the time and the energy to put one up. Do it!

    Agreed. Just because something used to be pagan, doesn't mean it's still pagan. When I put up a Christmas tree, I'm not worshipping it, I don't bow down before it, I use it as a decoration because I happen to really like it. Christmas trees look good, they're lots of fun to decorate with family members and they really brighten up the house for a couple of weeks. I don't worship trees, I worship God - a Christmas tree is just a decoration, nothing more.

    Think about a regular ol' decoration you have around your house - me, I'm a university student, so I have movie posters on my walls. And I'm sure lots of people have pictures of their family members on their walls in nice frames. And how about nice curtains or light fixtures or floor coverings?? All of these things decorate your home, right?? So what makes them any different from a Christmas tree, other than the fact that a Christmas tree is seasonal?? Do you worship the pictures you hang on your walls?? Do you sing your praise to that new light fixture in your bathroom that you really like?? No, they're just decorations, not idols. Same goes for a Christmas tree - it's nice, it's pretty and sparkly and shiny and all of that, it's bright, it's festive, and it's just a decoration. You don't worship it any more than you'd worship that movie poster your teenager keeps on his bedroom door.

    jwfacts said:

    Pagan, What's pagan??? Everything is pagan, a cat, a wedding ring, everything is to someone. It is a lame excuse made to separate JWs from everyone else.

    And it's true, the WTS tends to think that damn near anything in Christendom is pagan except worshipping God, so they like to ban anything that's mainstream. Heaven forbid that their members actually have some fun, spend time with their families, put up some decorations and fit in with the rest of Christian society. Ban the holidays, and you segregate your members from mainstream society and therefore, they are alienated and forced to the fringes of society. They don't associate with non-JWs, just like they're told, and they're afraid to disobey a bunch of old men in Brooklyn. That way, they can't question what they're being told, they can't find out that they're being misled and they can't break away from the WTS. No holidays just serves to keep people in line and prevent them from leaving the WTS, in my opinion.

    So celebrate Christmas, enjoy the time spent with your family and friends, if you want to go to church, go for it, and if you don't want to, then don't. Everyone has the incredible gift of free will, God gave it to you, so use it.

    I live my life believing in a loving, understanding and forgiving Heavenly Father - honour Him in whatever way you see fit, and He will understand your purposes. Nobody on Earth, not some organization, not some so-called "Governing Body", can tell you how to worship God, that is a personal thing, just as your relationship with Him should be, and God will not condemn anyone who worships Him with sincerity. If Christmas is how you choose to do that, God will understand.

    In closing, I'd like to refer back to my favourite quote from the movie "Kingdom of Heaven":

    "God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry."

    Merry Christmas everyone!!

    -Becka :)

  • Honesty
    Honesty


    I believe the reason the Watchtower Society condemns Christmas is because Christians all over the world celebrate Jesus and what He has done for all of mankind. The charities receive enough donations during the Christmas season to operate for another year. The various mission boards receive donations exceeding $100 million each during the Christmas season which enables their missionaries to be provided for the whole year. The Watchtower Society claims to worship the God of the Bible yet, they do not know Him. He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They deny every truthful aspect found in the Bible of each one of them. They don't even baptise people until they 'qualify' and then they are baptised into the spirit directed organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Where in the Bible does it say that Christians would be witnesses of anyone other than Jesus?

    Yes, I celebrate Jesus and His birth.

    I also celebrate His death and more importantly, I celebrate His resurrection.

    A close look at the Bible account of Christ's birth proves the Watchtower has lied about the origins of the star and where it led the sages from the East. It also shows their ignorance when one contemplates how Joseph and Mary financed their escape and managed to feed and shelter themselves while exiled in Egypt to avoid Herod.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Floss

    I agree with you about the commercialisation, and lining other people's pockets. But making gifts at home instead of buying them is a nice alternative. We also use the opportunity to buy the kids undies, socks, T-Shirts etc which we would have to buy anyway as wear-and-tear items.

    I have JW relatives who always say "We can buy gifts anytime of the year, not just Christmas!!"

    Well you know what? They NEVER buy a gift, NEVER! I have 3 kids, and my JW relatives (including my mother, the kids grandmother) NEVER send a gift or a card, nothing. It's terrible, really! So that statement about "being able to buy gifts anytime" is a just a big excuse to never buy a gift or spend money. It's a COPOUT!!

    At least with Christmas my kids DO get a gift, however small, from their parents and my non-JW relatives and I must say I think it's great.

    Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth. Maybe in your case you make the effort to buy gifts at other times of the year and for that you should be commended!

    Cheers!

    The Pope

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