Denial of ever having been baptized is an interesting angle. That could easily be used when someone moves to a new town. Never heard that one before, but I like it. Sort of like saying, "Theokratic Warfare, THIS!"
AuldSoul
Help help help! ASAP please!
by mkr32208 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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blondie
Either way it is their game, their rules and we know how the WTS likes to change things even behind the scenes (e.g., try and find anywhere in the publications where taking a blood transfusion is a DAing offense instead of a DFing offense; only a non-letter was read to the elders; they weren't even allowed to touch it or look at it themselves, and definitely not able to make copies or have a copy for the elder files.)
Blondie
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mkr32208
Thanks much guys got enough gave her a little "letter" for them!
Thanks for everyones fast response I wish the elders were half so fast! Ha
Blondie- Those are all good points but what you've got to remember is I'm not trying to stop from getting df'ed I don't really care about that I'm just trying to make as much fuss as I can! Make those Janitors WORK for a change! hee hee!
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blondie
half as fast or half-assed?
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TopHat
mkr, why do you want to make a fuss? Wouldn't that just prove to them that "Apostates" are what they say they are..."Trouble Makers"?
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avishai
mkr, why do you want to make a fuss? Wouldn't that just prove to them that "Apostates" are what they say they are..."Trouble Makers"?
So? Like they don't cause enough havoc?
I understand not rocking the boat because "that will just prove to them what they think of apostates."
BUT I also no longer live by their rules, and if they came to break up MY family, etc., on an individual basis, your damn right i'd make as BIG of a fuss as possible.
These guys expect to lead their "sheep to the slaughter" quietly, and have trained us to go quietly, Well, in the words of rage against the machine "F__K you I won't do what you tell me!!" I won't go quietly on an individual basis with the bastards. The R&F, fine, I 'll be quiet w/ them, but the elders? Their another ballgame. -
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jwfacts
Mkr
They will d/f someone who has not associated for some time if 3 criteria are met, does he profess to be a JW and is he recognised as one in the community. Is he in contact with other witnesses? Is he willing to meet with a committee, thus showing his accountability to the congregation? -p99 of the elders book. If you refuse to meet with them they can d/a you for not recognising accountability, so they can get you either way.
Here is how to be annoying to them, if you are willing to meet with them. After the first meeting they will give their verdict to d/f you. They are supposed to tell you and give 1 week to appeal. You need to give a good reason like you were in an emotional state and said things that you now regret. Appeal it so that a second committee is formed. In that case all 6 elders will be present. When they say you are guilty you can not appeal again, but you are able to claim both committees were wrong. In this case they will request you to submit your allegations about why they are wrong to the branch office. They can not then do anything until after bethel has made its decision.
The most frustrating thing for them is to make sure they put it in writing. The elders book repeatedly says not to put anything in writing, if at all possible (probably out of fear of suing) - p109 p.143 If you refuse to let them tell you anything and make them put all decisions in writing they will need to contact Bethel for permission. That really upsets them. I forced the issue by writing stating that their contact distresses me so much that thay are not to call but must put it all in writing. When they kept calling me i said I would take out an Aprehended Violence Order (in Aust that can be taken out on a person who is deemed as harrasing someone by unannounced visits and phonecalls).
p109 also states that you are not to take any guests or tape record the proceedings. So you can push the point if you want by taking a support group and a big tape recorder. Ask for a scriptural reason for why no one can be present. In bible times hearings were considered in public such as at the city gates. They will have some irrelevant excuse, like its a rule from Jehovahs modern day org and by disregarding it you are displaying loose conduct.
Finally you can threaten to sue each individual elder. Not the WTS but the elders individually for defamation, undue emotional stress etc. You are not likely to win, but it will freak them out. A threat of suing will stop some weak minded elders continuing with a case if done at the start, as they will justify it by saying you are no longer recognised as a Witness in the community. If you have already had 2 committees formed that are in a bind as they can not admit to being under Caesars law ahead of Gods and so will most likely have to d/f you regardless of any threat of suing.
This really is my last post before i leave to go camping.
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DavidChristopher
Avishai, i had more more fun going into with the attorney approach. represent yourself, be honest, and tell them why you feel the way you do. let them try to PROVE to you, you are "wrong" in their eyes as well as your own. A negative and negative doesn't make a positive, unless you intend to prove otherwise. Somebody has to be the "good" guy. That is what self control, and being a real leader is. They are being led like sheep by skull and crossbones who I hope to be meeting real soon. Don't get led by them as well. I think you are better, wiser, and smarter than that. But I can relate very well to how you feel, and what is going through your mind as the day approaches. A contest even? Who can handle themselves better? Me or You? Wanna race..........? I would like to see what you got under YOUR hood.
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ozziepost
someone who's not claiming to be a witness and doesn't recognize the elders authority should be left alone...
Are you absolutely sure such a quote exists? as others have pointed out, the elders' manual does speak of those where "wrongdoing" has become known and they have not been known as a JW for some years. But this doesn't apply to someone who right now is known as a Witness. There is a difference. You'd have to be a successful fader over many years to allow yourself the 'privilege' of being left alone.