question, need some info

by onetwofour 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Welcome, kep81

    If anyone doesnt mind can anyone tell me any info about how the figure a day isnt a normal day like we think.

    I assume you are being introduced to the Jehovah's Witness version of end-time bible interpretation and prophecy. Here's a link to help you get a broader understanding on the issue.

    http://www.doomsdayguide.org/armadeggon.htm

    Also how do they get that jesus is michael and is he the only angel to be called archangel.

    Here's a good thread on the subject. I know Leolaia has written about the bible angels, but do you think I can find it?

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/45177/1.ashx

    Here's some virtual churches for you to try:

    http://www.thevirtualchurch.com/home.html#

    http://www.24-7prayer.com/cm/

    Quango, if you don't mind, could you explain how the NWT translators "restored" Jehovah's name in the Greek text?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Quango:

    There isn't a central bible translation body as such - effectively anyone can translate & publish a bible.

    You're right - it was just a couple of anonymous men at Brooklyn.

    The New World translation is generally respected

    Other than by JWs, by who? There's no such "general" opinion at all. It's seen for what it is, in the theological community - corrupt!

    and it does restore God's name in the text.

    In the Old Testament, I agree, though it isn't alone in that (e.g. see Literal Version). However in the New Testament it places it where it never was. That's not "restoration", it's false-insertion.

    To be honest , any question you pose here will get a negative response
    Where are the negative responses? Do you mean responses that contradict what you've been taught to believe?
    this is basically a forum for ex-witnesses
    Yup, but have you ever considered why so many of us are "ex", when we were Elders, Missionaries, Circuit Overseers, etc.? Many here left of their own volition, rather than for anything that they are alleged to have done.
    so use your judgement when you read the replies.
    Good advice. However, don't forget to heed the same advise when reading WTS publications!!!
  • kep81
    kep81

    I WOULD JUST LIKE TO STATE THAT I AM NOT A EX JW

    FOR ME COMING TO THIS FORUM IS TO HEAR OTHER PEOPLES VIEWS ABOUT THE JWS I MEAN THE JWS ARE AT MY HOUSE TRYING TO CONVERT ME ALL THE TIME AND THATS FINE BUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME FINDING OUT ABOUT THEM AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY, I COULD ASK A JW ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT THEM AND IF ITS TRUE WHICH I HAVE AND I FEEL I DONT GET A TRUE ANSWER I GET THE ANSWER THAT THE WTS PRINT IN THE LITTLE BOOKS FOR THEM, LET ME MAKE AN EXAMPLE I SPOKE TO THIS JW LADY I KNOW AND SAID TO HER ABOUT THE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS THINGY AND SHE GOES TO ME ABOUT THE EXAMPLE OF PUTTING ALCOHOL INTO THE VAINS IM SURE YOU ALL KNOW IT, SO I THOUGHT GEE SHES SO SMART TO COME UP WITH THAT EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE THEN LATER FIND OUT SHE READ IT FROM A PUBLICATION. NOW AT LEAST HERE YOU GET MORE THAN ONE PERSONS VIEW AND YOU GET A QUOTE FROM THE JWS WITH A SCRIPTURE FROM THE BIBLE JWS HARDLY USE THERE BIBLE WITH ME THEY GOT ALL THESE BOOKS eg REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES. DID THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WROTE THE BIBLE WRITE THAT TOO.

  • quango
    quango

    If it is respect and belief in the bible you are looking for Kep81 , I suggest you have probably come to the wrong place in this forum , as most posters no longer believe in it (with one or two exceptions , like little toe). I suspect that few would make the time or effort to visit you at your house , as most believe that they do not have any obligation to preach.

    JWs would argue that asking apostate witnesses for advice would be like asking Judas for information on Jesus - unlikely to get an accurate picture.

    Good luck in your journey.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Kep81:You've already made an important distinction, in that any publications are surely subordinate to the bible. Unfortunately most JWs can no longer make that distinction as they have been spoon-fed doctrines from the pages of the Watchtower. The appeal to reason uses extensive commentary from that magazine and a few prooftexts, rather than the true spirit of the word, which is freedom to the soul.

    I openly confess that I have an axe to grind and you may take what I have to say with a big pinch of salt if you like. I was raised a JW, believed it fully, was zealous for it, loved "Jehovah", Pioneered, became an Elder and was being trained to become a Circuit Overseer. There are many others here that got further in the organization, and for longer, than I did. I still love God passionately, and have a real love and concern for JWs and especially exJWs, too.

    If, at the end of the day, you decide to sign-up to the JWs then that's your decision. Being candid I wouldn't particularly like it because I believe I have an insight into what you'd be letting yourself in for, but I would still respect that decision.

    Quango:
    Part of the difficulty with visiting people is that they live so far apart, and most often are still trying to deal with their own issues after leaving. Quite a few don't know what to believe anymore, and so rightly don't evangelise. I think they need according due respect for that righteous decision, too, don't you? After all, it's in keeping with James 3:1.

    JWs would argue that asking apostate witnesses for advice would be like asking Judas for information on Jesus - unlikely to get an accurate picture.

    Aye, you're right. That's how they have been taught to view it.

    An exJW would view it that you are best hearing the pros and cons, rather that just a biased viewpoint (for or against).

    An antiJW would view it that you are best asking the torn sheep how the wolf shepherds his flock

  • quango
    quango

    "Part of the difficulty with visiting people is that they live so far apart, and most often are still trying to deal with their own issues after leaving."

    Is that not a bit weak , LT? Your former friends & brothers make the effort & put forth much expense & travel many miles to witness , including the long trek to Harris. My knowledge of your former congregation is that it is a very zealous one and has many pioneers. That is commendable , bearing in mind the geographical challenges.

    Jesus gave a commission to preach & teach others about him & his father. Rather than introvertedly "deal with issues" , surely the best option is to reach out & talk to others.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Quango:Many of us do.

    I've travelled extensively to meet up with people from this site (see any of my "LittleToe's Travels" threads). I also visit churches throughout Britain and still regularly visit Harris. I've been involved in too many street evangelism events to number and even had a recent slot on a live radio broadcast. I know that there are others on this site that do something similar, though they don't beat their own chests as much as the WTS. They are content for Christ to get the glory, rather than an organization.

    Of the many others who were "skinned and thrown" about, do you genuinely expect them to preach when they have serious endemic issues? That sounds like you're condoning hypocrasy!

    I'm interested in your knowledge of my former congregation. Do I know you? If you choose to reveal your identity, please be assured that my discretion is like the Bank of Scotland, as many can attest to.

  • kep81
    kep81

    QUANGO

    IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WANT TO PROVE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO POST THINGS WRONG AND CONDEMN THIS FORUM, YOU SAY PEOPLE ON HERE ARE BIAS BECAUSE THEY ARE EXJWS, WELL ARNT YOU BEING EXACTLY THE SAME WITH YOUR STATEMENTS ........ MAYBE IM WRONG BUT THATS THE IMPRESSION I GOT. REALLY, NOONE IS TELLING YOU TO COME CHECK OUT THE FORUMS YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT I GUESS BECAUSE YOU GOT STUFF TO SAY ASWELL BUT INSTEAD OF PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN FOR THEIR BELIEFS ( ISNT THAT A BIT WEAK LTOE) WHY NOT POST YOURS AND LEAVE OTHER PEOPLES OUT OF IT. I WONT TO READ WHAT PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO SAY ABOUT THEIR BELIEFS AND WHAT SCRIPTURES SUPPORT THEM. WOULD I LIKE TO BE INVOLVED WITH A GROUP THAT CANT EVEN LET PEOPLE HAVE THERE OWN OPINIONS I DONT THINK SO. AND EVEN IF LTOE IS BIAS HE ADMITTED IT AND HE SAID TO ME ITS MY CHOICE AND HE WOULDNT HOLD IT AGAINST ME I THINK THATS THE KINDA OF PERSON I WOULD LIKE TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH. IF YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THE BIBLE SHARE THINGS WITH ME DONT PUT THE EFFORT INTO DEBATES WITH EX JWS, ALL THEY DO IS PUT THEIR POINT ACROSS.

  • kep81
    kep81

    JGNAT

    THESE ARE THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES SHE GAVE ME IN REGARDS TO THE END OF PROPHECIES WHEN THE BIBLE WAS COMPLETE.

    ROMANS 15:4, 1CORINTHIANS 10:11, 2PETER 1:20-21, 1SAIAH 41:21-26, 46:9-11

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Kep81, I will later address the particular scriptures, but I first would like to introduce you to the concept of circular reasoning. A document that testifies to itself is not proof. Here's an example.

    There is a bottle of cough syrup that advertises that "It tastes awful but it works." Furthermore, there is the testimony of witnesses (actors) on a commercial, who grimace, and also say, "It tastes awful but it works." You have a cold, so you buy a bottle. You taste it, and it is indeed awful. But for that day at least, you don't feel any better. Did it work?

    What if that same bottle of cough syrup said, "Everything written on this bottle is absolutely true." Does that change whether the cough syrup worked or not?

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